Zerg's deevolution -- or so i see it.

1) currupters have a spell that targets a unit and then that unit will take more damage.
2) nydus worms can be dropped anywhere you have sight and takes about 20 sec's to tunnel underground, during this time they're vulnerable to attack from the enemy.
3) Hydralisk speed was in early builds but was quickly taken out and is not in game anymore, so hydras are very slow off creep. This also encurages more creep tumer and overlord creep raining to creep the entire map. (I wish they still had the speed upgrade.)

 

Yeah, that's annoying they don't have the speed upgrade anymore. Hydras are what I usually mass. Hah, every time I hear of Corruptors, I hear a new story. First, they just do regular damage. Then they turn the enemy into a turret that fights for you. Then they have a spell that stops a building from producing units. Now they have a spell that nerfs an enemy unit. I wish Blizzard would make up its mind.
How do you fight Carriers And Battlecruisers without swarm, plague and Scourges?

 

(Answer to the last question ^) mass hyrda/currupter/and a few mutas. but the enemy also has a ground army that you have to worry about as well.

 

I guess that depends if they mass carriers of go for a balanced army. I hope the Corruptors have that spell that targets a unit to take more damage, that would be useful against carriers etc. Something like that would make up for the lack of Scourges and Dark Swarm.

 

Yes they are more expensive, but they do MUCH more damage. Before it was 10 explosive damage, meaning a measly 5 damage against small targets. Now it's 12 damage to everything. That's a pretty ludicrous boost in attack power.

 

In BW, Guardians did 20 as their base damage. I think the Zerg got nerfed a lot. They're the only race with no units that can attack while cloaked or do area/splash/line damage, when all three races had those abilities in BW.

 

why do you keep saying they got no splash damage?

ultras and banelings got spash and banelings can attack while cloaked, with infestors being able to used as an offense while cloaked.

 

Zerg are fine, I think it's the maps that 'nerfed' them ( chokes for base entrance, smaller battlefields, close gap between bases etc.). I just hate the way Blizzard force us to spread creep (hydra speed) and build multiple queens (early GtA). Climbing to higher tech, zerg seem to be the slowest of the 3 races (the disadvantage of a macro race).

 

Ya, the Hydra speed is really annoying. I thought you could only have one queen. The Zerg should get something to compensate for the lack of Devourers/Scourge/Dark Swarm against capital ships though, and something to replace the Lurker.

 

currupters fill the anti capital/colossi role, and throw in hydras to massacre the enemy if they decide to go for mass air.

spreading creep isn't that hard, you are either a not so good player that doesn't do the larvae thing when you can so you collect too much energy and have the extra energy for creep tumers or ur pro that never misses an inject so you make one more queen to mass tumers.

I do agree on the lurker part though, mass baneling is only good vs mass bio/tightly clumped units because it otherwise takes to long to get to the target, where lurkers were great at that and they were able to do ok vs more spread out troops cuz of the range and hit points.

 

Yeah, I can't see Banelings being as effective as a defensive unit as Lurkers. As for Corruptors, I wouldn't mind seeing them buffed to be better equipped to take on capital ships, seeing as they are only air-to-air and capital ships can also attack ground and destroy your base.

 

I know you wouldn't think it's enough but it turns inter the broodlord, so it can technicly attack ground to.

 

nerfed? nah. you just need to adjust your strategies. terran and protoss are the macro races. you need to be sneaky and clever to play zerg. Lurkers, you can burrow and forget them. Banelings are damn good if used correctly, but a bit more involved to use. Similar with other stuff

 

Sure they are nerfed. If all the Zerg players are forced to change their style of play to being "sneaky, hit and run, deceptive" etc, that means the Zerg lack the numbers or firepower to meet their opponent head on when you are both at the same Tier and same supply levels. The Roach should go back to 1 supply and the Hydra should get a health buff. The Zerg "swarm" as coined by Blizzard is supposed to overrun your defenses with sheer numbers. Strength in numbers to compensate for strength in stronger units is how the Zerg were different from Terran and Protoss.

 

That's essentially the exact opposite of how I had things in my mind.

From what I understood, zerg was fairly Macro heavy (swarm/overwhelm your opponent with cheap units) while protoss was more micro intensive (fewer, more expensive/hardy units used carefully for victory) and Terran was the middle ground...

am I off-base here?

 

I got it! I've been playing as zerg, and so far I have 8 wins and idk how many losses... 4/5? about 5 terran and 3 protoss (my wins) and I've played 2 protoss games (custom so not on my record) and protoss seemed a lot stronger, but then I look back at my record.... and I've been winning... zerg feels weaker, but in reality, it isn't that skewed.

 

deth moad ue: I totally agree. The Zerg "swarm" are supposed to be the macro race with Hatcheries, cheap units, low supply costs and mobility. The main difference I find with sc2 is that you can't just "pump out the Hydra" like you did in Brood Wars. I think you'd fair better with the Brood War Hydras since you get twice as many, each with 80 health, decent attack, and good speed. The best part is, you still had plenty of supply left over after raising an army that could soak up damage and protect you from ground and air, especially with Dark Swarm. Does anyone know why they nerfed the health in the Sc2 Hydras? I find I get confused because I'm not sure if I should build Roaches that justify the 2 supply cost more than Hydras, or build Hydras with crappy health to cover ground and air units. It's too bad the swarming/overwheling part of the Zerg is gone, especially since they don't have the power to meet enemy forces head on.

 

I agree with a lot of this thread.

Zerg has been nurfed to hell and lost a lot of its "zerginess" They're supposed to be the swarm race but can easily be outswarmed by the other races, especially terran.

The main problem I have with the zerg is they took all flavor out of it. I'm no great player but I'm not too shabby. When I play the zerg it's pretty much, "do I mass zerglings and attack move, or do I mass hydralisks and attack move, or do i mass mutalisks and attack move" granted I dig in on the micro when my swarm gets in battle directing different groups of the swarm, but that's about it. There are no "tricks" or combos or any sort of tactical micro possible. I've won a lot of battles after i figured out what I need to do. I build a ton of hatcheries and basically just have twice the expansions as the other players (which I shouldn't have to do to have a chance to compete) then build about 70 mutalisks and attack move around the map.) This is boring.

This became really apparent when after playing nothing but zerg I gave terran a try. I had so many choices! I could build all kinds of units that have special abilites, tricks, good synergy with other units. Almost every single unit available had some neat skill or ability. Hell even the lowly marine has stimpacks that a good micro player can use to great results. I could actually micro a battle and effect the outcome unlike zerg where you either outnumber them by a ton or don't. (because even if you just outnumber an enemy by a little bit they'll win because they have artillary, cloaks, emp, psy storm....the list goes on and on.

so sum up what ended up being too long of a post.....Zerg lack uniqueness and any ability to have your micro effect the outcome of battle much. Basically you have generic ground troop, generic flying troop, and generic melee troop. Everything else is either nerfed into uselessness, costs way more than anyone elses equivilent and takes longer to tech to, or is just some gimmicky worthlessnes.


(i didn't include roaches in this list because the whole 2 supply thing makes them a joke, especially when they can't attack air.)

*edit* I also think I know partially why the zerg have been continually non stop nerfed. I saw a video almost 2 months ago of one of the devs, can't remember what the video was but towards the end he made an off hand comment about how it's hard to achieve blanace and his example was something along the lines of. "on the american servers the zerg are losing more than winning but on the korean servers the zerg are winning by a landslide, something close to 70% of wins are with zerg, so this shows how hard it is to balance because we have to balance one game for two different regions with different results."

So it seems the constant zerg nerfing is because they're trying to balance the korean servers. Although for the life of me I can't figure out how just being in a different country somehow makes the game play out completely different.