Zerg's deevolution -- or so i see it.

Zergs do have Corruptors to counter capital ships you know, but it aches me to spawn a few corruptors just so you can get BLs.

On topic: Yea, when SC2 was announced I was kinda looking forward to zerg being the race with the most variety since blizzard did emphasize them to be 'evolving'.

The 2 supply nerf to the Roach contradicts the zerg's swarm feel, a 40 supply roach army would drastically drop to 20 Roaches and it greatly affects the gameplay. I suggest like maybe dropping their health to 100, supply back to 1 but rework their hp regen passive: perhaps making it 30 hp/sec (unburrowed/burrowed) but they lose 9 hp regen/sec every time they attack until it drops to 3 and stays there unless they burrow, in which case they regain their 30 hp/sec back.

Blizzard is doing a mediocre retouch to the Ultra but it still doesn't have a solid purpose for the swarm besides dealing with armored units. They can make the Ultra step over smaller units like zlings, blings and broodlings similar to the colossi and give it a passive skill that would absorb the splash damage dealt to those units under it making the Ultra like a mobile Dark Swarm. Bringing down Ultra tech to Lair level might also work but give them like 300 to 450 Hp and an upgrade is optional to increase their Hp by 100 or so at Hive level.

I'm also bothered by the Overseer's Infested Terran spell, it costing 100 energy and the fact that the Raven's a-turret outperforms it is ridiculous. Blizzard can give the Overseer a support spell to replace the Infested Terran to up its battlefield utility. Oh, and terran stole our Dark Swarm *cough* *PDD* *cough*.

 

Roaches didn't replace lurkers, banelings did.

And you can still use those almost exactly like hold position lurkers, if you research burrow.

Also at above: don't know why you are complaining about zerg not being swarmy enough, when every single non-tier 3 unit they have costs 2 supply or less. They are by far the fastest race to rebuild their units as well.

As for ultralisks, units that aren't attacking already move out of the way for them. Zerglins that are attacking do block them, but ultras have long enough range to just attack over them. Yeah you might get blocked by a wall of your own attacking hydras, but that's your fault for bad control.

 

Blizzard did mention they removed the Lurker coz they overlap with the roles of both the Baneling and Roach.

 

BETA is officially over now and if ever there will be final changes for the zerg, this will be my wish list

* perhaps switch hydra and roach tech due to early troubles with air, unless they really do want all zerg users to expect spawning queens more than necessarry. Early anti-air is fair. P - got stalker and sentry, T - got marnies, Z - got queen (which is a unit you dont want to gamble early game) - does this sound fair? well they could make queens cheaper lol

* lurkers, yes lurkers at tier 3 will be highly appreciated for assortment and more tactic diversity. I don't think that they overlap that much with the roach and the banelings. Yes banelings are great and explosive but has anyone seen a player use them when a game reaches atleast late tier 2? I dont think they are that detrimental compared to what the lurker has to offer and what it forces other players to do. And again, zerg has really less ground units compared to other races. Which is kinda sad because 50% of the time we will always expect that zerg will be using hydras in the long run. So why not give the hydra its rightful evolution back? They kept saying that zerg are evolving and yet some of its core units have been questionable as of late.

* Infester vs Defiler - this is hands down a win for the mighthy defiler but since the infester comes early at tier 2, it still offers some useful skills occasionally. But I think that the frenzy skill has to be redone and for that, wouldn't you say that consume deserves to be the right skill to replace it? I think its the perfect skill to make use of the infester. For fungal growths specifics, I'm thinking it has to be more potent perhaps have a tier 3 upgrade to make it damage energy, shield and health at the same time or perhaps 50max damage and make it stackable but wouldnt kill. The glory of the dark swarm is over thus zerg has to be more aggressive these days, its good that a creep system has been created but dark swarms invincibility will always be my pick any day of the star calendar.

* Ultralisk - 4 roaches vs an Ultralisk? which of them do you think the players choice award will be awarded lol. Til these day players tend to doubt the ultralisks capabilities since most of the other races basic units mostly will take an ultra down with ease. And that is the result of the damage bonus given to specific units of each races. Unfortunately blizzards answer was to force players to complement them forcibly by us using infestors with them but that is still a work in progress. I hope they manage to fix the Ultra once we get the game or during some more patches. And I think that the necesarry upgrade required for the Ultra to again be useful is to have such an upgrade that will make its armor fortified thus making it immune to any bonus damages or rather give the frenzy a standard ability for the Ultralisk for research.

* Corruptors - corrupt buildings are hardly used so why not bring back the corruption towers back when it kills air units as a bonus since most of the time other races are abusing the zerg for having late anti air units.

* Overseer - Infested terran is pricey, I think that it should rather atleast be 2 Infested marines spawning out instead of 1 for such an energy cost. 3 Infested terrans would be much better or bring it back to 5 marines for 5-10 seconds for 150 energy 4damage ea 40hp. The overseer is zergs only unit with spell casting abilitie. Compared to the Raven and Mothership, its role is much less supportive so why not give it something offensive or defensive that can help a little in battle. Compared to the raven and mothership, having the skill infested terran is nothing worth mentioning of... please do something about it.

* A flying capital unit will be very interesting even atleast in campaign mode.
* Its very obvious that almost all of the units in SC2 has their own trademark skills and that makes me want the hydras more to get those lurker evolution back
* Lorewise im still wondering why probes doesnt know how to fix mechanical units compared to SCVs that can repair carriers and colossi without even knowing their mechanics lol - maybe having a mechanical bay structure that can repair protoss mex would be a good idea like the former shield battery.

* I know theres much more that can be changed on each races for balance and justice purposes. But i sure hope that the odds would favor much more for the zerg next patch for change matters...

 

I still don't think Banelings are going to the hold the fort as well as Lurkers. Here's a video of how I usually use Lurkers to defend. I was going to post some more videos, but it takes a long time to upload.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm3sYLFVtfE
So now, the Zerg don't have any units that can attack while cloaked. Also, Lurkers don't commit suicide.
It's too bad you can't upgrade your anti-air towers to counter capital ships etc. Corruptors should get some sort of bonus like Devourers did.

 

so basically, if youre attacking an expansion or an undefended base, youd have to stop attacking to let regen kick in, thus letting the enemy have time to build/mobilize units?

 

You can unburrow instantly right after getting back the regen (resets back to 30hp/sec thru burrowing) then join the fray once again and it takes like 1-2 seconds to burrow-unburrow, anyway just pouring thoughts.

 

It sucks that they removed dark swarm. How the [censored] am I going to break defense now?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gYwawXrWAY
I posted another video using the same defence tactic with Lurkers. Dark Swarm + Lurkers = good bass defence, or Dark Swarm and Hydras for anti - air. Dark Swarm was awesome when used offensively too. The Zerg towers suck and their units are basically the same as the original Starcraft so I don't get why they removed their best spells, not to mention the only unit that could attack while cloaked - Lurkers. Banelings to me don't hold ground as well as Lurkers.

 

Yea...here's hoping a lot of these issues are addressed between the last patch and the game! If not...I'm swapping to Terran.

Sure, i'll give up lurks without a fuss if terrans lose tanks and toss loses immortals! I suppose it's nice that toss no longer has reavers (though I'd be peeved about that)!

Lurkers under dark swarm was one of my fave combos...and now i get neither....they did a bit of tweaking on patch 15, but it's not nearly enough to make zerg viable IMO..

Freedom23 pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as his recommendations....those would give the zerg a fighting chance!

I don't see how lurks overlap with roaches and BLings...roaches move while burrowed and have crap attack range while above ground. BLings have the option of exploding underground but don't have the same range. Neither unit has any true siege capability (use a BLing, lose a BLing)...

but if they wanna call overlap, I'll trade the roach for the lurk. Just bring the hydra back to tier 1, make lurks tier 2 and nix the roach

I'll give the zerg a few spins when the game comes out...but i'm going to start studying up on Terran builds.

 

I gotta agree. My whole defence strategy is kinda destroyed now too. Dark Swarm and Hydras was the best anti-carrier or anti-Battlecruiser defence and Dark Swarm + Lurkers with other units directly on top the Lurkers was the best ground defence. It doesn't make sense for the Zerg to have no units that can attack while cloaked when the other races have them. I really don't care if the Lurkers can move while burrowed, I just want my favourite unit back. I don't agree that Banelings replaced Lurkers because Lurkers weren't suicide bombers, Infested Terrans were. Lurkers were seige units, or the Zerg's version of Terran Wraiths or Protoss Dark Templar. Even if there is so called "overlap", who cares? That gives you more choices to work with.

 

I agree on some points.

Here are some of my ideas.

1) Spawn Broodling - NO the brood lord does NOT replace this skill. This skill was meant to kill tanks, archons, and the fact that it took so much energy prevented it from being over used.
2) Dark Swarm - A VERY useful skill. However, considering that Terran lack melee units, the skill would need some sort of adjustment. Maybe significant damage reduction?
3) Switch Broodlord to morph from mutalisks. I shouldn't have to build corrupters if I dont need it, esp since they are expensive. Broodlords are already expensive themselves.
4) Some sort of minor roach buff to compensate for the 2 supply. I'm not talking about a significant buff. I would settle with reducing the price of an upgrade, or even moving burrow back to tier 1.
5) Overlord Speed upgrade should be 50/50 again, but I would even settle for 75/75.

On the other note. I really enjoyed using plague in SC1, but it could be too much in SC2 so I don't mind if it doesn't make a come back.

 

I agree they should bring Dark Swam back. Most of the terran units in Sc 1 were range too. Maybe make dark swarm protect against air attack and 50% against land attack. I also used Spawn Broodlings for tanks and templars. I hope they buff the Roach to compensate for the 2 supply. I still think the biggest nerf is removing Lurkers because now the Zerg has no units that can attack while cloaked and no seige units.

 

Burrowed banelings might as well be lurkers, since they explode and kill half your army before you can do anything about it.

And their siege unit is the brood lord.

 

Brood Lords are pretty similar to guardians. Banelings are not a replacement for Lurkers, they are a suicide bomber and a replacement for Infested Terrans from Starcraft 1. Lurkers never killed themselves. Lurkers could attack while cloaked and had a good range, almost like a cloaked tank. I think it's silly that Zerg are the only race without a cloaked attacker now.

 

I think they should simply add the lurker back as like teir three, just like brood war only a teir back, I think they should at least see what happens in the beta, personaly I think it would give you a reason to accually upgrade to hive and if there overpowered then just increase price making much less of them, and if the enemy let's the Zerg not spend money on attacking units and they mass lurker/ hydra it's there fault.

 

I agree. If you mass Lurkers, you'll be taken out by air units. It's not like Zerg has dark swarm anymore. They're pretty much a sitting duck for carriers and battlecruisers. Lurkers weren't overpowered in Brood War, and if they are overpowered in SC2, then just lower the damage or hitpoints a bit to compensate. The fact that the Zerg have no cloaked units that can attack or no seige/push/holding ground units makes them less appealing. The banelings are not a replacement for Lurkers, they are the equivalent to Scourges or Infested Terrans from Brood War.

 

Banelings are their cloaked attacker. Here's what you do:

1) Research burrow
2) Burrow a handful a banelings near the enemy
3) Enemy moves out and runs over top of them
4) Select banelings and click detonate
5) Banelings instantly detonate from underground, killing everything above them

It's like terran allied mines from SC1, there's no way you can deal with it without a mobile detector.

Not to mention that every other zerg unit has the ability to cloak, some with the ability to move while cloaked.

 

I'm surprised to not see burrowed baneling detonation at all even though there aren't always mobile detectors in the opposing army. Is there a damage penalty of some sort whereby it's not worth using this ability?

 

Sure I get that, but the Baneling is more of a replacement for the Infested Terran than it is a replacement for Lurkers. Lurkers hold ground well and are the only unit that can attack while cloaked, not commit suicide. If your enemy has dectectors, they can just sit there and kill the Banelings with range attackers. I still think Lurkers covered with Dark Swarm is a way stronger defense than Banelings. If the Zerg are evolving, it doesn't make sense why they would lose critical units like this one.
I'd use Lurkers early game to drop on someone's base and if they don't have detection, they Lurkers keep attacking and kill their economy. Or late game, Lurkers can help you push your front line forward. Or you can burrow them in your base incase anyone drops you and they will automatically defend. They're also great at choke points. Like the video I posted, they have to kill the units above the Lurkers first, and then take on the Lurkers, all the while, you are wiping them out. I'm hoping they bring them back, or some sort of similar unit when the 2nd and 3rd release of Sc2 happens.