Zerg underpowered

What do you mean that Z is based on 100% micro/macro control? Based on what you say, that Zerg is a lot harder to play than T or P because you have to have perfect micro/macro to win suggests that zerg in fact are underpowered since a skilless person can win over a less skilled one just because he has an easier race.

But in fact what you say is wrong. Since when does P or T not need good macro or mico?

It's about as difficult for a T or P player to transition to Z as it is for the reverse to happen, because you get used to different mechanism and different ways of transitioning into different builds.

As for balance, it seems like we have a generally good balance between all races, players of all races have won various tournaments at times, so the current game state should generally be considered fairly balanced(not perfectly ofc but fairly so)... Imo

 

Generally i agree with Robin above... zerg need macro and micro more than other races. The only think i have to add is that BOTH zerg and protoss are underpowered compared to terran since the first two require much more effort and income to operate at the same level

 

I really have to disagree w most people claiming Zerg is underpowered. I think the game is pretty close to being balanced. Point being the game is about really understanding how to play to be good, and I think the game is about there. I've heard arguments about zerg being more difficult to use, but that's not true at all as you approach the macro game. They're responsive way faster than a Terran opponent could be. Playing Zerg requires really understanding how to respond to your opponent or you lose, the same anyone else. Some people would call this harder, but in some ways this makes thing easier. There are fewer Zerg units to use, but they replenish quickly and to the diversity of your opponent. Good Zerg respond and expand with their macro game when they should. All-ins suck to play against, but it's part of the game and a good part of keeping diversity in the game.

Don't take this as saying Zerg is only a macro oriented race...the problem is nubz get to playing Zerg before they can even perfect a build order and that's going to crush you early game against a semi ok player rushing you when you try to fast expand "because the pros do". I know, some of you are saying that's imba- why does a player with the same or less skill get to rush me easily, but I need to know how to defend? The answer is easy, because if you know how to defend those pushes you're going to come out with an advantage. You shouldn't have an advantage without defending a push while trying to expand- that doesn't make sense.

The microargrument I also find hard to defend in the favor of being more difficult for Zerg. Most of Zerg micro requires moving units into position. Granted there are some offensive castings and burrow. However, I'll return to my point earlier- Zerg units are less diverse but are built more quickly. I feel like people keep comparing Zerg mechanics to Terran or Protoss mechanics and if you really think about it that doesn't make any sense.

 

I was playing on international matches in SC1 as zerg, and guess what...I didn´t have any problems beating experienced terran and protoss players...Now...I just won a 64 player tournament..European Tournament which only hardcore players attended. And guess what..I won as zerg. Zerg is not underpowered..It just requires more effort and macro then protoss and terran race. And zerg is the race that NEEDS to scout most of all races, if you dont scout him and if he is building air units you will probably be defeated if you dont got any anti air so remember to always scout and send in a overlord for a suicide mission and u will see what your opponent is building.

 

Robin that's the same with other races too...

Quantifying micro and macro is imo a wrong thing to do...

 

In my opinion, in a straight up fight with even supply and even amount of counter units zerg vs anything tend to lose straight up without micro. I have never won a even battle without heavy micro when playing as zerg. When two balanced armies meet (balanced in terms of supply and counter units) the zerg army will lose if the two players just let em at it without controlling them. It seems to me that zerg is more micro intensive than the other races if only slighty. I normally go crazy macro and overwhelm or starve the opponent to death.

 

Which again brings it down to my previous post. Zerg have the ability to produce mass armies incredibly fast. The zerg units are also generally cheap and zerg spend fewer resources in production buildings(450 for hatch+queen covers for a whole base's needs which equals to as much as 3gate robo for a P or 4rax for a T which adds up to much more money both mineral and gas-wise) means that the zerg have the ability to have more units than other races. Yes a 200/200 P army will beat a 200/200 Z army if both a-move, but the zerg can rebuild his whole army in a single production cycle while the P can take like 5 or 6 cycles to rebuild his, giving the zerg a big timeframe to counterattack and win.


If the zerg army was as strong as the protoss army in this situation and the zerg kept the mechanics they have right now reinforcing as easily as they do and rebuilding their whole forces as fast, then the zerg would steamroll over both other races with ease...

 

Well actually I thought that protoss can just quickly replentish their army by constantly warping in units, and when you have lots of warpgates it wouldn't take too long to get another army. I mean cooldown for zealots is only like 23sec and cooldown for stalker is slightly slower. The zerg units take like 30sec or so for the roach and ling other units take longer.

 

A single hatchery can store up to 19 larvae. That means that in a single cycle a single hatch can create as much as 19 units as 19 warpgates. Or any combination of 19 production buildings including robos and stargates. That's the unique thing about zerg. If a zerg has enough money to make 20 ultras, with 2 hatcheries he can make them in a single production cycle. A Protoss player with 3-4 robos at the end game will need 5-7 cycles to make the same amount of immortals or colossi.

Warpgates are good for reinforcing close to your army, but they don't create more units per production cycle than 1 per warpgate. And in the lategame you're gonna need those money units too: colossi, immortals, VRs, carriers, whatever high-tech thing you want. That's the difference...

 

If you get your zerglins or speedlings to surround stalkers they will just demolish them. what you have to look out for though are zealots engaging or sentries putting up force fields. For early game roaches are a simple solution.

 

Bull****

10 Points from Zerg

 

Zerg are strongest as the game goes later.

The races are strongest:
T early Game
P Mid game
Zerg Late game.

 

These arguments and kind of stupid if you ask me.

Each race has its small advantage one way or another vs the other

Zerg have the disadvantage have having low HP units but there cheap and as long as your a base or more above your enemy you typically have enough resources to re-build enough units to hold off their attacks while they move toward your base after killing your last one.
I have seen this on Metolopolis in pro games where the Zerg expand in a giant crescent and by the time the Toss or Terran reach the Zerg bases the Zerg has already macro'd back to full supply and have another army to fight off there opponents now rag tag army.

 

Didn't you just say that 1 base Zerg equals 1 base Protoss or terran?
cause i dont agree with that... we all know what happends when a Zerg only has one hatchery to produce from

A whole Zerg base needs at least 2 hatcheries to be equal to Terran or Protoss in my opinion.
Now when i think of it 2 hatcheries cost 100 minerals more than 4 warpgates

Although what i just said, I dont think Zerg is underpowered... i just thought the production buildings were a bad example.

 

No, I just said that zerg are not underpowered and that they just have different mechanics than T or P... While 1 hatchery costs 100 more minerals than 4 gates or 4 rax, it can produce at least the same amount of units(more if you've stopped drone production in the late game) and can produce any kind of unit, so it's like 4 gates OR 4 stargates OR 4 robos or any combination of these you need any time you need it... It's a very strong and versatile mechanic...

On the other hand, yes, it's generally true that zerg need to stay 1 base above the other races, but not because they are weaker, but rather the opposite: that's the zerg's strength and they have to make use of it... a 5 base zerg is perhaps stronger than a 5 base protoss or terran since the zerg's production capabilities at 5 bases with tons of tech unlocked is seriously incredible... On the other hand on low tech where zerg have to depend on zerglings(which take the same amount of larva an ultralisk takes) zerg need the extra hatch for more larva since they don't have the tech to use that larva for something funkier, while a gateway's single production cycle can make a zealot or stalker which is way more powerful than 2 zerglings...

It's just different mechanics: no race is underpowered, they just have different stengths and weaknesses to exploit...