zerg swarm group increase

I just lost all respect for you I'm sorry, but, REMOVE THE HYDRALISK?!?!?! Are you crazy... and how could it not be a Zerg attribute if its a main part of the Zerg forces? if it wasn't a true face of the Zerg why was it in sc? if....omg I can no longer comment on this.

 

Ronin are you serious?!?!?!

I agree with Zergalicious. You cannot remove the Hydralisk. So what if it's an all around unit? It still has plenty of weaknesses! And yes, it is the face of the Zerg!

Each race had a couple of units in the original Starcraft that are classic, and Blizzard would be crazy to take them out. Notice how the SCV, Marine, Ghost, Battlecruiser, and Siege Tank are still in for the Terrans. Probe, Zealot, Dark/High Templar, Carrier for the Protoss. Slightly modifying some of these would be ok but removal no way. For the Zerg, the Overlord, Drone, Zergling, Hydralisk, and Mutalisk are going to be the classic units that stay in the game. ESPECIALLY the Hydralisk.

And @ Don, yes shortcuts are fine, but you reach a point where the game plays itself. There's got to be enough micro left in there so that professional players are still possible.

 

Ronin, i have not lost all respect for you, but i think the hydra is an awesome unit, it is balanced and it is the face of zerg and therefore MUST STAY

Niner im with you here too, i played AOE and i am not into it anymore because all u do is mass the counter army and move to his position and watch... gets really old... barely any microing

i see cannons... click stagger mode

i see cavlry ... click melee mode


blah blah blah

 

Ronin shame on you, you don't play zerg at all do you? Nobody who can play zerg would try and kill off the Hydra's. And of course the pro's are gonna have plenty to do niner so I understand what your saying.

 

Personally I like the idea but in this way.

I think the rate of fire should be slightly increased for a large swarm in close proximity if each other. Cause the moral of the swarm would be increased. Cause more numbers equals more chance to win. And they'd have more will to fight then, hence more effort put into the fighting.

But a damage upgrade for a closely knit swarm? No. Cause damage upgrades means they have better spines/claws/whatever to attack with. And that can't be realistically done without evolution or an upgrade.

 

this ability should be a tier 2 upgrade

 

very nice idea! and it would definitely go with the zerg. I can see it now! 100's of powered up zerglings! MUAHHAHAHAHAHA

 

i think it would work nicely

of course it would need a cap on the effect or, like trooper_lozer said about 100s of lings would be unstoppable

yeah, it doesnt seem to work well with dmg and carapace because those are upgraded separately , but i was thinking rate of fire, or speed.

Speed would work well, the lings wouldnt get all shot up at range and could engage sooner.

do you think it should only effect one unit type, two... all?

its should definatly come as an upgrade

 

what if u had like 25-50 units and the zerg gain a 5% movement gain, and -1 armor. if their are 51-100 then the zerg gain a 10% movement gain and a added 5% attack speed, and -2 armor. And for 101-150 you get 15% movement boost, 10% movement speed, and -4 armor. And finnaly 151 and up get, 20% movement boost, 15% attack speed, and -6 armor. The reason i have added the speed boost is that i think it makes sense because the zerg would be massed together giving them a huge moral boost, as mentioned above. With this morale boost comes a sense of unity comes this strong push in speed. The reason for the armor going down is that think about it... when there are a lot of units together it is easier to target and hit them right? so the more the enemy, the easier it is to kill them.

I dont know, mayb the numbers may be a little over or underpowering...

 

i think the armor debonus sucks for noobs

 

haha, ya think? i just thought it would make some sense, mayb we could decrease the armor dobonus some...

 

i guess i like the increments idea
i dunno about the armor debonus, what if u dont have 6 armor, do they have negative armor? haha
and sumtimes you cant control how close they are, and in a battle, if two groups get too close and get debonused it could be costly.

however that would promote careful microing. obviously the numbers would need some balancing
hmmm... it would be interesting to see how ppl would use it.

it brings you back to the whole formations thing, if you dont want the debonus, are you going to spread 100 zerglings out one by one? and when they fight theyd just clump back together. i suppose you could just keep them in separate regiments.

i like it, it works to the advantage of skilled players but isnt too cheap with disadvantage

maybe it could be activated or not activated! thanks for the input Lozer owerup:

 

@ gah don niner and zerg...
You all said that the hydralisk was the face of the zerg, whic i believe that one of my reason for axing the hydralisk was that, the zerg is made up, or should be, of specialist units each having one perticular role. ive seen matches where the person won just using hydralisks. So hydras either need to be changed or removed. Each zerg unit has a role ask yourself what is the hydralisk's role. Personally im not a fan of the zerg, but i have played them from time to time and i found hydra's very...well...un-zerg-like.
I believe that the hydralisk=> :toilet:
also i think that the armor reduction is a bad idea, between splash dmage and tremendous counter fire zerg are gonna drop way to fast, not much of an improvement if you ask me.

 

I've seen matches where the person won using just Marines. Or Battlecruisers. Or Dragoons. Or Carriers.

Each race has multiple units that are all around pretty solid and could theoretically win the game by themselves. However, in any game where one unit = win for a player, clearly the other players did not exploit said unit's weaknesses, or even were not very good. Mass Hydralisk without support from other units is not usually the way to win.

That said, I'd be fine if we saw something new with the Hydralisk, as long as it is still in the game with essentially the same importance. It is just simply too classic and too Zerg to remove.

 

I just think that the hydra has a niche but it bleeds into other roles, its spammable, zergling, high health ultralisk(believe me Ive seen many a scenario where I'd use ultras where hydras worked just fine), support- belongs to them, anti air, rush unit, and they were good on their own. I (for now) cant think or a scenario where hydralisks would not be effective. so i just think that the hydra should be limited in its role its too general for what i think the zerg is, an army of specialised units.

Also thanks for responding niner, I'm not sure if the other three had been on between this and my last post but i know you posted.
Edit, fixed redundancy

 

Sure thing - I enjoy having these sorts of discussions. You do raise a good point - that the Hydralisk can really be applied in loads of situations. However, Hydralisks are very, very vulnerable to area of effect attacks (Siege Tank, Reaver, Lurkers) and a good player will make you pay for using only them.

My main disagreement with you was about removing the unit. The Hydralisk is way too classic, and I would probably explode if it was not in Starcraft II. That said, I wouldn't have a problem if we saw a bit of a change.

 

i guess if they are in one big swarm...oyvay...then i guess then it would be a problem if there were splash damage attackers (or defenders) that the hydras BUT if they were in small clusters then individual clusters would not change, say that there were 12 hydras and then a trio of siege tanks, if the hydras were split into groups of two then the siege tanks would have great difficulty in taking out all the hyralisks being only able to his a small portion each while all the hydralsisks are dealing full damage amoung all of the tanks. same sort of thing with reavers and positioning is a cood counter to lurker defense, dont put all the units in a line and you'll loose much fewer units.

all im saying is that it is much to...much...of a generalist unit so it either needs to get a focused role or get gone. Personally i kinda like the hydralis's concept its just too un-zerg-like to me with its "generalist" role.

 

The Hydralisk is not un-Zerg-like even if it does have more of a general role - just by virtue of it already having been in the original Starcraft and having key cinematic scenes centered around it. Also, by Zerg lore, it is one of the core strains. Because of these things, the Hydralisk cannot be taken out of the game, and that isn't even considering the 'classic' value to gamers.

Maybe to change it's role a little bit, in Starcraft II the Hydralisk could have its attack changed from normal to something that isn't as effective against all of its enemies. This way, it stays in the game and keeps people like me happy, while opening possibilities for specialized Zerg units to keep people like you happy.

 

Why does the Zerg have to have each unit specialized for only one role? They never before so why now?

A group of Marines and Medics work exactly the same way as Hydralisks. But the Marines are cheaper and faster to build so its even.

The fact that the Zerg have units with general purpose is why they wasn't weak. Hydralisks are effective at a lot but I say Collosi will kill them a lot. Also Zealots with their charge and Stalkers with the blink will even out the Hydralisk.
Mutalisks are basically the Air version of Hydralisks, they can destroy whole bases when used right, they can take out Carriers with ease with the bouncing effect focusing on the Carrier and killing the Interceptors off.

Also Hydralisks won't own Tanks as much since the tanks don't have that range limit like they did in sc1 but this can be countered with them turning into eggs causing the Tanks to damaged each other more than the Hydralisks which are all up in the Tanks face.

Personally I love the Hydralisk its simple and effective which is what the Zerg are, they ain't all hi-tech with shields and lasers they keep it simple and still retain their rape factor.

You could win any game with a mass of Zerglings/Hydras/Mutalisks/Guardians/Ultralisks, any of them could single handedly take out a base.

So yet again I see no problem with the Hydralisk.

 

I did not neccisarrily say that the hydralick, or any other unit have ONE specific role, (if I did my mistake :-[ ) in any case I think that the Hydralisk with it having so many uses are not quite what I thought the zerg eptomises, change and specification of its beings to suit certain roles. With the hydralisk as an all purpose unit I think, though nice, its role doesn't quite fit with the rest of the ideas behind the zerg, I'll Grant that it may not HAVE to go but it needs to find its own groove not leech off of others. I thought that the hydralisk going would be appreciated by allowing a new less malliable unit to take its place, or give it a new role. I liked the hydralisk, i really do i used it alot when i played as zerg, though I am not really much of a zerg fan, but i just did not agree with the thought process behind its roll is all.