Zerg Strategy Discussion

Don't underestimate Roaches... They are fearsome in their numbers of masses. They also provide such excellent defences.

 

One of my (not too well tested) strategies for countering MMM is a few infestors (not mandatory, but helps a lot), banelings and zerglings. Often times I'll sacrifce my infestors to fungal growth as much of the clump as possible (so not all of them can stimpack), then attack with my bane/zerglings. instead of sending my bane/lings in a seperate group, I'd mix them so it looks something like this:

* = banelings
+= zerglings

*+*+*+*+*
+*+*+*+*+
*+*+*+*+*+
+*+*+*+*+*

I don't send like this:
*******
*******
+++++
+++++

because its just inefficient.

 

Please input any imbalances that you have noticed as Zerg against another race.

Or build orders you find effective.

Or to theorycraft.

This thread hasn't been updated in some time and I would like to get it going again!

Thank you for all of your input so far.

 

8 pool seems to have a fair chance of getting into a Terrans base before the wall up I've noticed. More importantly its sustainable and you keep the zerglings attacking without your ecomany falling to bits like 6 pool.

A realated good trick to do against Terrans in the early game is send a single drone to scout and attack his workers as they try to build the wall up. Not only can skill micoing of the drone buy you valuable time to get the zerglings up, its also a good way to scout out his base and figure out his plans as well as seeing how plusable a rush really is.

If you think he's lived past his usefull, then morph him into a extractor on one of there gas. If its left alone then you get recon, if he attacks it with workers, then there not acturly working:yes: and if real troups attack it, then you know exacly when he's got them.

On the bigger base aera maps, leaving a extractor on a natrual expo gas isn't a bad idea, through you typicaly need a low profie drone. A very risky stratergy is to build a hatchery behide there ramp of point and zerg rush from there... through if discovered it can cost you big time.

 

That was awesome input, Draco. Thanks.

 

I've started tinkering around with terrans recently, and I'd say there's a bit more to that. Terrans are especially vulnerable to this due to their greater reliance on 2x gas early on for any kind of tech or mm strategy, and also because they don't have a lot of forces to spare early on to take it out. It's much easier for a zerg player to take it out with a few lings and/or their queen, without compromising their base or build very much. For Terrans on the other hand, it takes awhile for a marine to take it out, and it also leaves their choke vulnerable to attack.

Honestly, I was taken off-guard by how much more crippling it was for me to get gas-blocked as terran than as zerg.

 

all 1v1 ZvT/P is 9ol/10d

 

Yeah I agree with Nerfday96, never enjoyed 6-10pooling much. If anything, I would rather scout and make sure terran isn't rushing a mech build and then baneling bust his wall. If you have around 8 banelings (5 for supply depot / 3 for counter infantry) with a decent ling force, and your enemy doesn't have hellions (or has few) then you will get an excellent harass and possibly win the game outright.

I find banelings work wonders against the MMM strategy mid game, I'm partial to the carpet bombing technique. Definitely make sure you don't send your overlords in without backup though...gotta have a roach wall or at least a bunch of zerglings to keep enemy fire focused on the ground.

That being said, I like rushing mutas in ZvT and then transitioning into ultras/hydras. Mutas make quick work of rines early on when there's a small infantry ball, harass workers and supply depots well, and usually force a terran player to get missile turrets and thors. If you got a half decent harassment in and time your transition nicely, then this usually works quite well.

In ZvP I usually prefer roaches, because rush mutas get raped by stalkers and lings get raped by zealots. Even with constant scouting, it can be difficult to tell exactly what kind of stalker/zealot composition a toss is getting sometimes, and with the latest roach buff, roaches are much better against stalkers than they used to be.

 

Hydras counter ............. Stalkers - Sentries - Immortals - Any air unit

Hydras get ownd by ............. Marines - Marauders (kinda) - Banelings - Colossus - Roaches....

okay so 1 hydra vs 1 marauder the hydra would win but since the marauder costs 25 gas less it still counters the hydras

have you tried playing as zerg before?
the most problems i have against terran is when they go Tank - Thor (and some marines to mix in)
and later they go vikings to own your broodlords

you really should try to play zerg if you haven't..... and then youll see how hard it is to play them

Sure that strategy works well.
But as zerg you can allways make an early overseer and spawn some changelings to reveal his starports.... that has saved me from getting ownd by banshees a lot of times

i remember a time where i allways muta-rushed against terran and 2 times in a row they banshee-rushed and i killed them with my mutas
so i guess that means -muta-rush- counters -banshee-rush- XD

hey do you guys still do the baneling bust even though the suply depots has been buffed with hp in the latest patch?

i never really do it... well i did it once and got completely ownd xD

 

Great strategies and I'll try out a few of them in the beginning and if I find use with them I'll make a commentary video for them I usually go with a 14 pool 16 hatchery against Protoss.

 

Uhhh, I would actually say that zealots counter hydras...especially if zealots have the legs upgrade! Also, hydras don't really "counter" stalkers, lings do that. Hydras are just decent against stalkers.

I definitely agree with hydras countering sentries and immortals, they're good vs immortals (as are lings) just because of the fast low hitting damage. More importantly though, hydras are one of the only zerg ground units that are good against sentries.

Hydras do get owned by marines, but given that the marauder's strength vs armored is not of any use, I think that hydras would actually be more cost effective and own marauders. In addition to banelings and colossi, siege tanks and thors melt through hydra clusters quite easily.

Overall, hydras counter air, and are just decent vs a wide variety of units. They're not actually the hard counter to a lot of ground units. Hydras are more of an all-round range supplement for your army, they get raped by most forms of splash and by melee units when unsupported. So support them in front with lings/roaches/ultras and target down those splash units.

 

I find its still pretty effective, just make ur attack maybe 1 'spawn larva' delayed if that makes sense, assuming your talking about 13gas 14 pool inspired bane rush, if you can attack when your supply is around the 40 mark instead of the 34 its still very effective... imo anyway Usually I use around 9-10 banelings that way the few leftover after the supply depot can chase down any military units while your lings to tear up their miniral line.. 9 times outa 10 they gg right there

 

yeah... your pretty right about that Hydras does not counter Zealots.... i just tested it yesterday and the Hydras got ownd but only if they cant kite the zealots ^^
But hydras do counter stalkers
for example: if you have 1 hydralisk vs 1 stalker then the hydralisk would win..... even though the stalker cost more than the hydralisk.. and they have the same range so thats why hydralisks counter stalkers

and then marauders..... well thats more complicated because like i said before in a 1 vs 1 the hydra would win but since the marauder cost less then you should have more marauders than hydras with the same amount of ressources so it should be like 5 hydras vs 6 marauders and then the marauders would actually win so marauders are costeffective vs hydras

oh but a 200 food hydra-army should pwn a 200 food marauder-army if im right

 

What if you micro'd the stalkers to blink forward undamaged stalkers to snipe hydras that try to fall back, while blinking backward severly damaged stalkers to recycle them to the back of the line?

 

Interesting, I will have to try that out some time. I usually try to get a big force of lings in beside the stalkers because they're so effective, but I didn't think 1 hydra would beat 1 stalker.

Regardless, I wouldn't call hydras a "counter" to stalkers...they are just pretty good vs stalkers. As Khayman pointed out, if a protoss uses their blink properly a stalker army will be quite formidable, even if hydras are marginally stronger.

Finding counters to units isn't about finding a unit that would beat it out in an equal food, attack move battle. Rather, think ahead, and produce a proper counter unit that is much more effective than theirs so that you can beat their force with half of the cost.

That being said, hydras are a completely viable option if you out-expand your enemy and just want to have a bigger hydra army than their stalker army (if they're any good they will get colossi to support vs hydras and pure hydras will fall apart).

I feel like 5 hydras will beat 6 marauders, a lot of the marauder cost goes into:
a) their extra damage vs armored units
b) their ability to slow units and therefore, kite them

Well, hydras are not armored units...and they are pretty much unkiteable, since their range will allow them to attack any marauders attempting to slow them. So, as far as I'm concerned, the extra cost that goes into marauders for these attributes is wasted on hydras, and hydras are more cost effective than marauders.

 

I'm having extremely great success with this strategy...

I find it extremely useful against other zerg and terran players. I have trouble sometimes with protoss when they go early stalkers, but if I can't kill them back early I just sit back, mass drones, build counter units, and don't let them expand.

I'll be posting a commentary and then a build order video of me using this strategy soon enough probably.

 

@Xerent I'm happy to hear that this particular strategy is doing well for you. This build order is one that I use every single day. And now with the Roaches being buffed in the last patch, this build is just so much more effective. I look forward to that video and the commentary! Thanks for reading and posting feedback!

 

Early stalkers is one of those situations where you get some supplementary slings. They'll make a world of difference.

 

I made a video for this strategy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkeezpiltfg

 

I have two questions:
1. do you make auxiliary hatcheries? If so, in what situations and do make an extra queen for it?

2. I recently got owned by mass stalkers and immortals with a few chargelots. Although I was up two bases and upgrading well and I had scouted his immortals so I didn't make too many roaches I didn't stand a chance. My lings, which I had considered the right choice, were slaughtered by his chargelots and then his stalkers made hash of my hydras... I didn't build brrodlords because I was afraid of blink stalkers... What do you do, when you scout loads of stalkers and immos plus chargelots?