Zerg Strategy Discussion

(pro terran players build a bunker in front of your hatch and stops you from getting your expo.)

If they are doing this by that time you should have our 6-8 lings early enough to stop it... if you see them building a bunker throw them down there and kill his scv before it finish's. Then they will usually cancel the bunker. But i have only had 1 terran player do that against me.. I play in Diamond League.

But there are times when you can't get that natural expo and when that times comes I just throw my second hatch in my main base and produce lings 2x faster. They usually went and wasted there time to make you not expo so you need to take that to your advantage and make sure not to let him expand or it will pretty much be gg for you. Also If they send 2-3 zealots to your base before you second hatch is finish pump out another queen at your main and send the first queen to your expo with 8lings and have 8 more in production. 16 ling 1 queen is more then enough to kill his 2 - 3 zealots that are coming to you. and if they put down a proxy they will not have there gateways transformed by then to us it. so kill there proxy pylon.. There are 3 stages that i play in vs protoss.

First stage is getting your first base saturated and get that second hatch down fast and Defend the protoss push.
Second stage is when you need to put down your Spire and roach den. B/c if they get colossus you need to get corrupters. There great defense against Colossus and if you Nydus your guys you can shut down there Production with them. Also expand 2 your third base also. Take over the map. The more map controll you have the better (Your the Swarm take advantage of it). When you have 1000+ minerals its a bad thing (unless you are about to do a push on there army with your army). But if your not pushing use that 1000 minerals to make an army or expand to another place. More Expansions mean more production/income. Soon you will just overrun your opponent.
Third stage if it has lasted this long then you pretty much need to be as aggressive as you can and use the Nydus. Find a place at there expo that you can Nydus 8-9 guys in and kill there nexux / workers before they can get to you. Then just run your guys back in they nydus worm and let them kill the work. You lost 100/100 and they lost 400+ however many workers and they will have to build another nexus meaning 800 minerals already used up. Sooner or later you will wear your opponent down and just out produce him and take over his army/base.

Terran is pretty much the same except when you see hellion rush make sure to have 2 queens to help out until you can get your sunkens up and get speedlings asap to help against hellions so they cant kite you around.

 

zerg strategies

8pool rush:

make 2 drones 8/10
build pool 7/10
build 3 drones 10/10
build 1 overlord (the overlord will finish 3 secs after the pool and 3 larvas will be rdy)
now there are not enough larvas
u build with the next larva zergling, then u will hav 150 minerals for queen when the next larva gets rdy, so u make a queen bevor next zergling to get soon much more larva
now u build a queen and can get a extractor (bevor u need the mineral income to get fast queen and zergling
then u push again zergling to 18/18 or 17/18(and make one extra drone for 18/18) and get the next overlord.
and verry early get your expand(you have enough zergling to puch-on-attack or maybe defend your expo)
you need this expo with a fast 2nd queen to get enough larva)

now it gets special:

against toss:
ull destroy a pylon till u get 10 zergling to kill eco, when he got 1 berserk u kill it and micro your attacked zergling away(u have to micro 2 zergling against 1 zealot to dont loose one), when he allrdy prepaired for the rush and have 2 zealots u turn back and wait for bangelings. with ur bangelings u kill the zealots and rush in GG and get fast evo chamber and anti air tower at minerals(voids really weak, and u dont want to get owned bye a weak unit)
here i also prefer to get roaches verry fast to, to save your defence or maybe to gather them to your attacking(nerving) zergling/bangeling army

against terr:
when he allrdy closed u try to attack the suplyport with ur 6 zergling, but when he got units behind his wall, turn back and wait for bangelings ull need 4 bangelings to kill a suplyport, when he is positioning is marines good so that your zergling are blocked ull need more banglings with sppeed and armor uprade

against zerg:
kill his fast expo or micro better then him your zergling and get fast bangelings and some anti air tower in base. i think in middle to late game zerg vs zerg only mass air, hydras verry good against mutas but with the extra teched zergling hydras have no chance


bangelings are verry usefull to destroy walls and kill melee, another tip is the heavy antiair air unit from zerg, vs toss u allway should have min a full group of them(they own colosses and in the right ammount all air units with good focus micro-and u can upgrade them to heavy anti-ground-air-units) 2-3 fast "defiler"(zergcaster) are good to to save your defence


sry for my bad english

 

!!!!!!! when u rush with your first 6 zergling on the worker, PULL THEM BACK WHEN THEY GET ATTACKED!!!!!! its enought time u get when they dont work, when pull his worker back u can again attack them, but ull need 10zerglings or more to kill workers effective!!! i prefer to kill with the first 6 zerglings army(zealots/marines/zerglings with micro) and/or pylons and supplydepots till i got enought zergling to kill the eco

 

Bangelings?

.....

Actually, I kind of like it. Banged by my bangelings.

 

Speaking of Banelings, I hardly ever hear about them or see them.

Tell me an epic moment where your Banelings turned the tide of war!

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/PsyStarcraft#p/u/68/HgjylOpmP-E

watch from 5:30

Baneling carpet bomb

 

I don't understand the logic behind that. When you wait for four (or more) more lings he can produce lings as well and he will produce the faster than you because his lings are already on the battlefield (his base) whereas you have to wait for yours. So the gap in lings should be closing over time and your chances of killing drones diminish.

 

I have a couple of questions about expanding etc.

1) This is more of a fact check than a question. The reason the Zerg fast expand isn't really for the resources but for the larva/extra units it hatches. I'm assuming that one Hatch with a queen can't produce enough. Is my assumption correct?

2) I've heard that Zerg need an extra expo than Protoss or Terran to be competitive. Why is that?

3) Follow up question for 2. Why can't other races expand as much as Zerg do? When I watch replays the Zerg almost always out-expands Terran or Protoss opponents. Why is that?

 

Sort of. There ARE zerg based builds/games where the zerg player uses 1 hatchery for quite awhile. Usually these involve speedling + tech or roach + tech builds. But a lot of the time zerg are going to need that 2nd hatchery for unit production, and building it at their expansion gives them the OPTION to utilize it as a fast expo right away (e.g. perhaps if the opponent walls off and techs), or at the very least the zerg player now has a hatchery setup to act as an expansion when he needs it later.

So yes, zerg build that 2nd hatch primarily for unit production. Building it at their natural gives them more options (but is typically harder to defend). But don't think zerg HAVE to necessarily fast expand like that either....depends on the strat/bo. It is common though.

Not sure. I've heard this a lot too. Maybe someone who has a better understanding of the meta game and the way unit production breaks down over time could answer this....or posit something to discredit it. One thing I will say is that zerg mechanics encourage this style of play which brings you to point three....

It is the mechanics of the race. Quick breakdown of the things that drive Zerg in this direction:

1) ALL zerg units are made from hatcheries. This means that each "expansion" is also a combat unit producer. Zerg need to build hatcheries to keep up on unit production, and it just makes good sense to build them at expansions when you can.

2) The fact that larvae are used to produce everything, including drones, and the fact hatcheries make your standard "unit" (i.e. produce larvae) at a faster rate than any other unit producing structure when backed by a Queen makes it extremely easy to quickly mass produce drones and saturate an expansion when the flow of the game presents an opportunity to do so. Zerg excel at taking advantage in blind spots in the opponent's intel like this. "Oops, you didn't see my expansion and didn't pressure me for a minute or two...I used that time to make all the drones for my expansion and thanks to spawn larvae I'm already catching up on combat/defensive units".

3) Zerg are highly mobile, both in basic unit mobility but also with creep bonuses and nydus'ing. This makes it easier to quickly consolidate forces built from hatcheries at different areas, as well as respond to threats in different areas.

4) Burrow and nydus worms (as well readily available transports when researched) greatly increase drone survivability when a razed expansion is inevitable, fastly reducing the costs of losing and having to rebuild expansions and increasing the viability of cancerous expansion.

 

They way I understand it, and I'm definitely not even close to pro, but on a per unit basis, zerg units are generally not as strong, but en masse, can deal excessive damage. For this lack of individual strength, zerg have been blessed with the ability to produce cheaper units, in parallel and have greater mobility. However to keep up in the long term with the other races, we need to produce more, and thus we need more larva, and more hatcheries. This is also why I think they implemented the queen in sc2. The fact that hatcheries are also unit producing structures is also why the other races have a tougher time keeping up with our ever expanding tendencies.

 

Right on, opm. :]

 

What Opm said was correct. Also Zerg isn't like Terran or Protoss. Protoss and Terran players are a race that produce 1 unit at a time meaning they dont need to dump large amounts of minerals/gas into there unit production at a time. Zerg though needs to expand and get that income rate since we are a mineral/gas dumping race. We have the ability to make a mass of units at 1 single time.

So it is very important to get the expansions up faster then your opponent if you dont then your more likely to be over run by your opponent. But also at the beginning if you feel that you are getting preasured really early and dont think you can take a natural expansion then dont be afraid of putting another hatchery down in your main base to help you defense up and push there units outta your area and get the control of the map that you need. Then once you feel comfortable you can put down another hatchery at your natural.

But in short terms like OPM was saying you are the zerg. you need multiple hatchery's so you can out produce your opponent and just overwhelm them. I always want to make sure i have 1-2 more expansions then my opponent does and in the long run you will just overwhelm them in minerals, gas, and units. Just keep the preasure on them and try to get the early map control. You will end up starving them to death

Dont forget dont be afraid to expand out away from your main base b/c you do have a nydus network you can throw up in your expansions to get units from one side of the map to the other really fast . Hope this helps.

HAPPY HUNTING!

 

In addition, i would say that they have helped level the field a bit with Protoss. Allowing you to warp in units, does let you mineral dump in layers, but ultimately, you have to be careful not to be left without units. For example, you want to have lots of larva while you're attacking, so in the case your forces are overwhelmed, you have an extra army ready to be spawned. However, you also want to do a good job of spending your resources and not get high on minerals and resources. There is a balance there, regardless of race and a time and a place for going high on minerals or staying low.

 

How does a Zerg player counter mass Stalkers?

Obviously air won't work. Stalkers will blink under Broodlords, Mutas will get shot down super fast too.

Stalkers do the extra damage vs Roaches so they are out. This leaves Hydralisks and Lings, which does work to an extent. You can run the lings in so the Stalkers can't move and then the Hydras go to town. But the Stalkers will eventually blink out so the lings have to pin them down again. I guess some fungal growths could help out too.

Is that the best strategy Zerg has?

Another idea that comes to mind is just to never let them mass the stalkers in the first place.

Edit: Another question

I just watched Day[9]'s 118 video about TLO and a build TLO uses against Zerg. The idea of the build is that he has one barracks, one factory, and one starport, plays passively, and builds units to exploit holes in the opponent's play. Making counters to units they build and harassing when he can. The strength of the build being he can get anything he needs very quickly.

At the end of the video Day[9] says that style of build wouldn't work well for Zerg. Does anyone know why he thinks that? I feel it would work well for Zerg because each unit only needs one building and they can build 5 in a minute if they need them. While with Terran, if TLO misses something, he can't make a couple emergency Thors quickly like Zerg could make 5-10 emergency Hydras.

 

"While with Terran, if TLO misses something, he can't make a couple emergency Thors quickly like Zerg could make 5-10 emergency Hydras."

Thats the reason for it right there. Terran, especially early on, cant recover from devastating army wiping losses, so they have to make everything count.

Zerg, on the other hand (provided that they are an expo ahead, or more even) can have their army wiped while another one, one that is tailored to combat whatever beat the first one, pops out.

Its not so much why can't Zerg play passive, but why should they.

 

Blink has a long cooldown, and speedlings en masse will deal with mass stalkers, esp mixed with banelings!
I abuse speedling to the max, so I'm biased w/ them, but lings are a great "mineral dump" even late game, i use them quite heavily

 

Swiftly, could you go into how you use speedlings late game more in depth? I used to use them as mineral dumps all the time but they were just useless when I did. Common strategies would be nice, maybe a replay.

 

Well speedlings late game get owned by higher tier units obviously, but they round out your army well,too. Late game they can have arenal glands as well as +X/+X if you pgrade them, turning theminto scary little bugs! I like to have a nice control group on my 6 hotkey, apart from my army, to patrol the map, harass if possible, flank during a battle, or keep expansions that are ill guarded at bay. If you can manage to distract your oppenent by luring them out or away,so they move the majority of their army off the ramp or away from the natural to defend or engage your army, you can easily slip your control group(i like anywhere from 14-26 or so)into the mineral lines at the natural, or the main if they aren't terran/walled, and wreak supreme havok before they realize it or react. Lings are one of the quickest harass units in the game, and their small size lets them surround quickly, and move between mineral patches, etc. I am a big advocate of harass, especially the mineral line. Early game, esp ZvP, if you can move their army out of the way(and go for metabolic boost fast, like i like to do) you can easily slip lings in, then they pull back the army from the ramp to engage those in the workers line, leaving the entrance exposed for-you guessed it-more lings! Also, if you manage to get4 or 5 banelings in the worker line, you will destroy almost evey worker mining minerals if they are well placed. Hope this helps!

 

Would also like to note an advantage in any game- in this case using zerglings- of always patrolling the map with a small harassment force. It not only keeps you in control and informed, but think of your APM over time if you start having to switch between your main, your lings, your natural, your army, your lings again,your queens, your main, lings again....etc. This helps a lot with multitasking, and ironing out your in-game efficiency. If you can manage your lings across the map patroling and harassing, as well as maintaining your macro skills, your APM will go up-your MEANINGFUL APM. Not just spamming, but you're actually able to do multiple tasks in rapid succession, all the while keeping in touch with what is going on within the game. Zerg has helped my APM a lot, because of queens, nmore expansions, mixing macro with my lings harass, etc. Many people say zerg is the least fun to play, but I just think everyone got used to roaches being king and zerg being a 1 trick pony. Well I got news for all the naysayers! They are lots of fun if you play them correctly, they have many options, and I think, if played correctly, are the strongest race. JMO =)

-Swifty

 

I had a game yesterday where I waited for my opponent to do his 4-gate thing, then ran 16 lings into his base and killed all but 5 probes, barely held off his attack and won the game. Lotsa fun.

I have another question. I am having a lot of problems with Zerg. I play the passive reactionary style a lot of people are doing where I macro really hard until I see them go for a certain strategy. Like a Void rush or a 4 gate. Then I make an army to counter theirs.

I feel I have two problems, first is my macro. I feel I'm teching too quickly and because of that my macro is suffering. I used to rush straight to Lair tech, ignoring roaches completely.

When is the proper time to tech to Lair?

I also am having problems with simply not having enough units when they attack.

When should I switch my focus from macro to army building? Is it as soon as I see what their plan is? Should I start before then?