Zerg Strategy Discussion

Yeah, I have personally quit playing Zerg as my main race because of the lack of versatility.

Sure, you can tech up to ultralisks/brood lords/corruptors, but the only one out of all of those worth getting is Brood Lords really. Ultralisks just aren't that useful because at that stage of the game your opponents usually tech to bigger units as well, which reduces the Ultras effectiveness, and corruptors are really only useful vs capital ships.

Another disadvantage of teching to higher tier units is the fact that you lose your advantage of sheer numbers as zerg.

At this point a Zerg player really needs to win in the early/mid game or you will most likely end up getting obliterated unless you can get lucky with swapping bases.

 

Coming from a terran player I have the most trouble by far with zerg. They almost always expand faster then me and then they build a spine crawler so have little trouble fighting off an early attack and good ones always get tons of banlings to counter my M&M, then they go to mutas which is a pain in the ***. Very difficult to beat, my best plan against a good zerg player is to camp in a little and rush banshees, but then they usually roll my defences because the banelings easily destroy my wall.

Then by late game they have a massive economy advantage, which happens pretty much no matter what and if they get to ultralisks im totally screwed.

 

@ Statikg

Just wanted to comment that Protoss/Terran players that don't know anything about Zerg often forget Zerg get unit production from the amount of Larva they have, which only comes from a hatchery. Yes, Queens greatly aid in this endeavor, but as you recall in SC1 (if you played it that is) Zerg had to build multiple Hatcheries to keep up with high amounts of Gateways/Barracks ect.

The story is no different in SC2, as a Zerg, you must build more Hatcherys to keep up with unit production - past early game you simply cannot get enough larva out even with Queens spamming Larva spawn on them.

We aren't fast expanding for quick resources, but that often is what we'll do anyways sense we're already there. The cost to maximizing a fast expand (filling up drones on it) is that of early game defeat, so until we know we're safe, we'll only use that second Hatchery for Larva spawns, and preemptively setting up for an expansion of resource gathering when time permits.

Yes- we could build that extra Hatchery in our base to keep it safer, but at the cost of reaching more resources, such as the ever so critical gas that expansions offer in this game.

The point I'm making is that Zerg will gladly take that risk early game to get an expansion going, and if they don't - well, they best have a plan to end the game barely entering Tier2. It's not so much a choice as it is to rather NOT build one early game.

To handle mid-late game, Zerg on average have to have more expansions up, not per-say fill them up right away, but simply to keep up with production rates. The cap would likely be 3 with Queens up, but 2 with Queens up can win most early-mid games. I don't reasonably see a game with 3 hatcherys with queens up ever filling out all those larva....less they had excessive resources saved up and built zergling/roaches/hyrdas.

 

Your right I didn't really appreciate that point and it is a good one, I will be a little bit less concerned about rushing that expansion in the future. So I guess your point is if I just hang back and get my own expansion up it may work out well for me.

I am still concerned about the banelings but I have been running a very effective pump out 4-5 reapers for economy harassment and then fast expand and MM strategy that I think may be about to break me out of my gold league rut into the big times. I had not been employing it as effectively against zerg because I was concerned about their expansion being even faster but I may try it now. I think I may add a few hellions in as well for the lings, but the problem is contrary to this discussion the zerg tend to employ a much more varied set of strategies then any other race.

Sometimes they muta rush, sometimes they get roaches/hydras (least effective normally but would ruin me if I had to many hellions) and sometimes lings and banelings. If i was going hellions I would be really ****ed if either of the other strategies materialized, but if I don't im ****ed against lings and banelings, and you can't really tell which is going to happen from the early game. This means using my energy for scanner sweeps, and some clever zerg build their buildings at the expansion which makes it even harder to scout them.

I guess the point im making for you zerg guys is, your race is alot more versatile then you think, my only real strategy is MMs and eventually incorporate siege tanks and maybe some air and protoss only strategy is a mix of ground units. I win almost all my games against toss currently. Much harder to see what zerg is going to come at you with. (I suppose that there are a couple other strats like DTs and cloaked banshees but these seem to materialize much less then mutas, i think perhaps because they are not conducive to having an expansion until late).

 

I personally think the best Terran strat to deal with Zerg off the start is to rush for Banshees.
One Banshee will kill one Queen, and then you are free to run over their base as more Banshees are coming in.

As Zerg it is pretty hard to scout Terran players, and you can push their Overlord out of your base before building a Starport. If you are worried about them going Banelings, just wall off with a Barracks and Factory and be ready to pull SCVs over to repair.

Once you get one Banshee head out and focus down his Queen, then Drones. About halfway through his Drones you should have another Banshee in his base, and at this point it is just a matter of killing any Spore Crawlers he may be putting up or Queens he is spawning.

 

The point I was making about Zerg quick expand is that they are predictable, so yes, don't let it unrest you by worrying about it. It may actually be the best time to harass during that stage if you're good at multitasking...often players focus too much on harassing an enemy that their own base management suffers; not all players can execute it flawlessly.

Another key issue players forget, is how envious all races are of each others percs...yet will exploit their weaknesses too. As a Zerg player, I'm envious that Protoss and Terran can wall/choke off their base to prevent players from knowing what units they are making.(Until we get Overseers at least) Where as a Zerg is always exposed to be scouted, so we have to use our army themselves to stop scouts before they see too much.

For every unit you complain about us Zerg have, I assure you multiple Zerg players complain about some of your Terran combination.

To work it out better, instead of perfecting a harass Strategy, is to perfect an effective scouting strategy. By knowing what your enemy is going with - you can then counter that more efficiently.

I'll only comment in regards of Banelings and Mutalisk sense you claim they give you issues.

Banelings kill light units, yet units armored, like marauders work well, even more so if you let the marauders walk in front of your army when you know banelings will be present.

Mutalisks can be dealt with via marines...but, as soon as you get the chance, you want Thors out sense they now deal splash damage to air. Thors ARE slow, so you want to place 1 by your mineral lines if you expect muta harass, and you also want your army being escorted by Thors again, if Mutalisk spam if likely.

If you're finding Thors too pricey during a game and still expect mutalisks, Turrets got buffed, so you can also place 2-3 by your minerals lines as well.

 

As a Protoss player I am also finding it hard to contain the zerg. Seems like once that expo is up I am done for. Mutalisks follow shortly and nothing I have used so far has been able to help me. If i push on the expo early the zerg player surrounds me with lings and picks off my zealots. If i cant find a ramp they usually die. I can hold off the roach army easily with sentry/stalker/immortal combo. However, once the zerg player gets some mutas out I have problems expanding past my natural and preventing him from expanding more. Is there some sort of strats you have seen protoss players use against you?

 

I have seen excellent protoss players employ sentries to cut armies in half rather then using the energy for bubbles. If your main trouble is with mutas then pheonixs are an effective counter, and once you have a decent sized group are very effective for running around and picking off all the ovelords while being able to disable and kill any hydras, queens and eventually drones as long as you have enough. I have seen a very effective 4 pheonix rush whereby one picks up the queen and the other 3 kill it, then kill all the overlords and bring in more to help you kill drones and the zerg will be very crippled.

 

Thanks for all the info here. I just started playing lately and had not played SC2 for like 15 years, so it is taking me some time to catch up. Since I got in the beta and do not have to play the AI, it is tough some of the crazy strats people throw at you.

I am pretty noob, so pardon my lack of knowledge, but I have a few questions. My biggest problem right now is against protoss. They seem to be able to mass units so fast that I have problems keeping up with production. How many queens do most people get per base? I know that using them to insert larvae is a key factor for zerg.

I think another area I lack in is early harassment and static base defense. I have been trying to send a drone out early to scout and if I see an opportunity, I will rush them, but this is tough agaist most decent players. I am also bit leery about early harass because even if I have a good strike and hurt them early, I am, perhaps, just too slow to finish.

Since zergs need creep, it takes longer to beef up a choke point with anti-ground buildings. I So I guess my question is about how many units do some of the more experiences players try to get before teching up the hive? I am in the lowly copper league and know I have lost some games that I should have won. If I can hold them off till Brood Lords, I tend to win. I havve tried massing hydras, but I seem to get creamed when I try that. I really wish getting an overseer was not so expensive too. I have lost a few games simply because I did not have a detector unit and 100 gas is a lot.

Anyways, thanks for all the info. The 10/9/10 has been a good start build for me for sure, but around the 26/34 unit mark, I just have trouble keeping up, despite the fact that I often have good mineral income. It seems the Zealot/Stalker/Immortal combo kills me every time. Some nice use of dark templars is also tough if I do not get an overseer fast enough. Terran seem more straight forward, but I tend to have to spend a while teching up to deal with their choke point builging blocking. I guess I should go banelings for this, but I haveve not really used them and it seems like when I do, they die before I can really get them to where they need to be fast enough.

 

i think all zerg players should just build drones for the first 5 min of the game

 

Rank #1 in 2v2 Division 77!

Just got rank #1 on the 2v2 Platinum Ladder!!!

I got my Beta key two days ago, been fighting AI ever since. Looks like 2 months of watching YouTube replays and commentaries payed off. Learning BOs from a distance and practicing and practicing. I am 20 wins and 11 losses now, and I have learned a ton. None of those matches were solo though.

I do, however, know a very powerful Zerg opener, much stronger than the 10/9/10 now and I will post that up shortly.

Also, you can contact me at any time on my Windows Live account at jerm.eslos07@yahoo.com.
If you need any suggestions, build orders or unit counters - send me a message, I will reply.

Take care, readers. I'll be around.

 

My account name on SC2 Beta Battle.net 2.0 is Empyron.emp

I can play 2s extremely well and thinking of going solo... but I won't be going solo at this time.

Whisper me if you'd like to 2s.

 

Things I Have Learned

Zerg units burrowed underground are completely invisible. This has been a hard counter against Zerg since no one really thinks they need an Overseer. Just a thought, atleast get one midgame and keep it hotkeyed in your base. Nothing is more annoying than losing a game to two DTs, cloaks Banshees or burrowed Roaches that move underground. Protoss obviously make an Observers in most games, and Terran can simply scan.

Zerg players in Platinum go Mutas as soon as they are in a pinched position. It is wise in ZvZ to get Mutas as soon as you see your opponent get a Spire or a Lair perhaps. Mutalisks are extremely effective vs ground units. They're even effective vs Hydras if there are not many Hydras to fight against. I recommend Mutalisks mid to late game in ZvZ. Roaches are a very powerful opener in ZvZ after the Zergling battles.

Dual Zerg teams are becoming more popular and Roaches are getting annoying... in my personal experience with ZZvZZ... GET ROACHES AND GET THEM GOOD! Seriously, the only thing that counters Roaches is more Roaches. It is unbelievable. Use my "New pride and joy" build to get 14 Roaches in under 5 minutes. I kid you not. 14 Roaches. In under 5 minutes. Practice it well.

Zerg players and their defenses if you choose to use the Roach-heavy opener:
6pool is your hard counter.
8pool is another one of your hard counters.
10pool is your soft counter.
13pool is your equal, but if you already plan on getting Roaches, you will still be victorious.
15hatch is nothing to worry about.
14pool is no different than 13pool, really.
----Keep in mind, you get your queen at 19 supply... and you get 2 roaches at 21 supply. You'll need to pray your opponent isn't planning on cheesing you with a 6 or 8 pool. I have not seen any cheese strategies in 2v2 Platinum. But I have seen some very good players with insane BOs. This build usually can 2v1 them still.

 

Well you have been playing 2s and this necessarily won't work in 1v1.

 

Marauders and wall > roach rush, sentries and stalkers > roach rush, any type of early zergling/reaper rush probably totally shoots you in the foot as I'm guessing this is a strategy that employs basically no early defence. Forgive me if I am a little skeptical of your go mass roaches strategy.

 

It's a strategy for medium distance to long distance maps. You have no early defenses except for your Queen that finishes at 19 supply. Roaches are extremely powerful early units.

You may be quite right. Since I haven't tested this in 1v1.

 

I will still sometimes 8 pool + drone cheese another zerg player. I would probably do it MORE often if I had a regular 2v2 partner I had confidence in (random partners is a deterrent to doing it, because without a good one you are completely at the mercy of the other zerg player's partner in most cases).

 

I always pool at 14... vs each race.
Then I expand at 15 or 16: only problem can be 2 gate proxy or rush. Scout your enemy before you expand.

Yo can survive to any build why that opening.
Zerg is not as ez as terran or protoss for production. You need to adapt to you openant. Think about this: everytime you create a units you slow your economie as zerg because that could be a drone. So that why you need to always scout your openant and adjust vs hes army size. That how you play zerg

 

im assuming you were blue!? hahah wow i coulda sworn you woulda lost. gj making the spine crawlers in his base!

 

I tried the 10/9/10 in a few games, it is a good strategy in a sense that you will have two hatcheries early in the game. But I am not sure if you would want to place it at your natural expansion cause the rush coming from your opponent could be devastating or you will have to sacrifice your economy for making lings for early defense. My concern is that while the 2nd hatchery does provide some good production, would it be replaceable with larva-injecting at early time as queen only cost 150 and is also a good defender.