Why zerg sucks and I'm switching races.

Kuvasz, not always is trolling conscious
http://whynne.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1mk5ec
exposing oneself as a troll could just be as a defense (which in Zone's case has never happened)

StarCraft is an extremely balanced RTS. It differs from many RTSes out there, many of which require just plain outmassing to win.

We should be responsible. Dont long-post and dont ignore like kuvasz >=(

<**** what am i saying, im not responsible...>

 

I do believe ignoring posts is much better than making an arse of yourself by rageposting/being rude

 

1n5an1ty, first off your a dumbass, sorry to be rude. I was pointing out that a stalkers get a bonus to roach, I never said I was going only roaches and I'm in gold, plat and diamond. I don't get to play as much with college and parents getting a divorce and the oldest of 7 kids. Sorry I don't devote my life to playing. I was merely pointing out its difficult for a zerg in some points in the game. We also have it easier ins some ways too. I know what I was saying, I know I'm not that good yet, I'm still learning and playing.

Also about the high-tech units, I know that corrupter s are the best counter to capital ships but if i make too many to counter it I could lose to ground forces, but to be good you need to know when is enough, I was only saying it would be nice if they had air to ground as well but then again broods do that and come from the corrupter s . And that post was when I was very new and in bronze. The one things that still bugs me is the ultra, its good in open fields but if caught in a corner., not where i want to be wish it had range, but that's where i think we have it a little bit harder, Thor's and Colossus have ranged attacks.

I also know some of my comments aren't perfect, but the hydra unit is the one that bugs me still. I know high dps and all, but off creep its slower than a roach with out speed and off creep. I know though on creep and upgraded its a great unit. I'm learning and I'm sorry that my untrained opinion is wrong in some ways, but to insult me is messed up and something I didn't expect from a forum site.

 

Hey Zone,

I use hydras in combination with drops when I choose to use them off speedlings z v p. It's been a less used strategy lately, but using drops can give you some mobility and protection for the glass cannon. I recently read a post on TL explaining that the nydus could be used like a proxy pylon warp in which left me really excited to try out somewhere. I can see hydras used more in combination with nydus. I rarely use nydus to bust in since it's so slow, but this idea of using it as a proxy could work really well in death ball matches to counter attack and defend or to keep pressure on an opponent very similar to warp gates.

It'd probably work right after the lair is up, but my hunch tells me roaches are going to be the better attacking unit against a well defended natty playing z v p. I wonder though, maybe instead of getting roaches w upgrades I could get roaches w a nydus. Or alternatively, maybe it'd be best to get the roaches with upgrades to establish map control and then reinforce a position just outside of their base with dumping creep from overlords to place a couple spines. sometime closer to your third base and hydras plant a nydus in your reinforced position of spines and roaches. I can visualize this type of strat on xel naga especially.

There are other examples of when to use hydras, but these are a couple to integrate mobility and hydralisks use.

 

Nydus worms are really really awesome and I really wonder why zergs don't use them at all... They're actually more powerful than proxy pylons because you can transport any ground unit with the nydus worms(including ultras or whatever) while pylons only work with gateway units, so that newly built colossus or immortal will not reinforce your army in time most of the time...

Or you can retreat into a worm if you see yourself losing the battle and pop a new one behind his back do some dmg and then pull off again...

Nydus worms are really the most powerful tool in the zerg arsenal, imo.

 

Nydus are gas intensive and can easily get shot down when you're trying to get them up, but that's why I think the proxy may really help. I've always tried to drop them within the defenses of someone else using my overseer. This new strategy (new to me) should help to send reinforcements faster. The biggest flaw of the nydus though is......ready for it? drum roll please

.......


NNNNEEEEEEAAAARRRRRRRRRRSCCCKKRREEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!


that's god damn noise tells everyone you dropped a nydus...stupidest noise ever. What other sounds announces itself regardless of its position on the map. NOTHING! I think nydus needs some small changes to it and it'd be really awesome.

Their gas intensity and timing seems to get in the way of some of the other tools you may really want to go after, but I'm going to flirt with adding them in there somehow.

 

yeah i agree. I'm going to try and be a bit more diverse with my strategies, but at the same time i agree with a lot that's been said in this post about changes that should be made.

 

Yea, the noise is a bother, but even after that the creep spread gives away too. I used the nydus a few times and the i started to make it to protect expo's more and the noise scared the opponent to. I watched the replay, he was attacking and i made a nydus and he pulled back in to his base. but now not so much

 

I just remember nuclear launches announce themselves no matter where on the map too...

 

I rarely use the nydus simply because of the noise, and that most players spread buildings around so finding a place to nydus w/o being seen can be a challenge. However, it still is fun to use sometimes.

My other problem is that I only feel comfortable doing roach/hydra play. Lings are mainly as a small meat shield for the roaches. muta/ling/bling play for me is incredibly uncomfortable because I dont use blings often and dont like zerg air except for lords, which is also rare for me since I dont go hive often.

But I am decent with injects and upgrades. And it is fun to watch 2/2 roach/hydra clean up larger 0/0 armies.

 

i've been reading the forms and i joined up just to reply to this thread.. Now i only started play last friday night so i'm new to sc2 but not to sc1 or rts in general.. Anyway i played, i don't know how many zerg games.. I started noticing that they are at a pretty big disadvantage..... First off they have absolutly no way to counter air at tech lvl 1 aside from the Spore Crawlers that require evo chamber which like all zerg building require a drone and on top of that can only attack air and not ground.. Now other then that you need to tech up to tech lvl 2 or air will just wipe u out with out any trouble what so ever..

Terran and Protoss both have units that attack air at lvl 1 zerg does not.. Already a draw back..
Terran and protoss also have the bunker and cannons as protection at lvl 1 that can attack both land and air.. not 1 or the other.. another draw back..
people say zerg are cheaper guess what adding in drone cost and all its more expensive to build towers for both air and land....

I agree with just about everything from the first post.. i played about 35 games in the practice league winning a majority of them and then when i got out of it and started playing in my bronze division i started losing.. every single game.. i tried all kinds of different things and got beat. I watch all the replays trying to see where i went wrong and what i could do to make my game better. Even though they all might have been close but it seemed like i lost because a inferior race i couldn't believe it..
Anyway i switched to protoss and haven't lost 1 game.. Not 1 i'm on 6th game winning streak..

as for race balances.. i think terran is the most balanced race and they should use them as a comparison.. Protoss the more i play may actually be overpowering i know people say that they are UP but i dunno about that.... but zerg is just underpowered sorry.. i couldn't beleive how easy it was to win when i switched races.. I almost quit after the 3rd day of play cause i felt so cheated unless i was playing another zerg..

they need to buff zerg or change some things around for them otherwise i'll never be touching them again.

HAD TO ADD THIS IN!!!
People who keep saying zerg is a harder race to use and requires more macro/micro management.. You retards realize that you yourselves are calling them underpowered as well.. LOL I can bring my same micro/macro to the other races and be twice as deadly.. saying that a race requires more skills is just another way of saying that they are under powered.

however i do agree with the people that said zergs weaknesses are thier strengths and vice versa.

 

I disagree with most of your post.
Thing with zerg is that their mechanics are unusual even to the more experienced RTS player. That's what makes them a harder race to get used to, but after that part about as hard or easy as other races are. The key thing is getting used to the way the zerg mechanics work.

As for anti-air: Queens. Make a few and you're protected easily, no need for spore crawlers.

As for the defenses:
Cannons are weaker than spine crawlers or bunkers, but attack both air and ground, bunkers require units to be put into them, they have no attack themselves, and crawlers can uproot and root elsewhere. Different races different strengths and weaknesses. You don't need to have both air and ground defenses at the same place, plus terran also build turrets for anti-air, not bunkers which also attack air only.

Thing with zerg is that they share a resource for workers, army and supplies(larva) so you have to know when to drone up and when to stop droning and make an army to survive, if you learn that, then you'll start winning tons of games. This means that you are required to scout a lot, by spreading overlords, sending lings to towers/enemy base, checking expansion timing for your opponent, etc. If you manage to keep droning like crazy and get an army right when the enemy pushes at your base and survive then you've practically won the game since you're at a significant economic advantage and zerg's production is extremely powerfull.


Btw, people saying that zerg requires more macro/micro doesn't prove that the statement is correct. Deducing something from a a false fact is also retarded in itself, imo.


Also a race's strength is not only the sum of it's units and buildings but also a function of the map pool and the current popular strategies or the amount of refinement of them.

Play any race you like, but don't expect to have an easier or harder time because the race is easy or hard in itself. Different types of players favour different races and playstyles too but the reverse is also true: different playstyles and race mechanics appeal to different types of players and player mentalities in a different way.

Choose whatever race you feel is the coolest and play it till you learn it, adapt your strategies to your style and work on improving, but seriously coming out of the practice league and calling for balance issues is not the smartest thing to do, in my book...

I've also had a 15win streak as Protoss the other day, and 1 week later I happened on like 9 zergs in a row and lost to 8 of them or something. Was it some balance change that somehow nerfed protoss and buffed zerg during that time? No, I just happened to fall on some players that had found some good timings to attack, while I was myself unaware of them and got to lose. Not the one or the other proves anything about balance.


On the other hand, it is generally true that Zerg have some issues with their representation in tournaments, and that is a sign of balance issues, but it doesn't either prove anything by itself since strategies and timings keep evolving and the state of the game is never static.

 

We'd have to check out the pros to understand the imbalances of the game. They perform everything the most efficiently. In other words they perform with the least amount of errors and can be the closest thing to a controlled environment for analysis. There are currently fewer Zerg players in the GSL this season. I think that's saying something, and several players have voiced their distaste with the current state of the race.

However, that being said- The majority of problems addressed in these posts are not substantive enough. We've got some things to do as zergs if we want to be good. Especially macro'ing up and producing drones (or harass/attack, but that's branching out from the fundamental concept I'm trying to confront here). You have to understand your opponent very clearly and have a bit of intuition about what your opponents can do. As a good zerg player you have to know how to respond to early game stuff or you die. It's plain and simple. It's understandable to want to claim imbalance. I've found myself in the position more than once to be enraged and frustrated with zerg and losing to players not as good as me, but once I cool off I've found that I lost because I wasn't as good as I needed to be and I FIND OUT WHY. You aren't going to win using zerg if you don't do your homework and do some things consistently every game.

There's a ton of variations to scout, but if you scout it and respond like you're supposed to, then you're going to be just fine. You'll setup a defense and protect yourself to produce more drones. It takes experience to know these kind of things. When you lose, look into what build you lost to and respond. Someone complained zerg doesn't have easy AA Tier 1. This is just a good example of not understanding how to respond. We do have anti air T1- it's our responsibility to learn what that is and how much of it to use and capitalize. If you miss a scout as zerg or don't know how to respond to a build, it's basically gg (AND YOUR FAULT) unless you're extremely lucky or experienced and can feel your way through it. You have to consistently scout as zerg, if you don't you're either way above your opponents league or dumb.

• Expand and defend. Opening game we've got to concentrate on getting our natty up as soon as possible. On most maps, I know how to early expand and still defend.
  
• Drones. We need lots or die.
  
• Scouting. We need to know what are opponent is doing to know when to drone.
  
• Overlords. We need to keep our eye on supply so we can make drones.
  
• Larva Inject. We need to have larva to make drones.
  
• drone. drone. drroonnnneeeey drone drone drone.

 

What other race has to play on the defensive all early game and hope they scout the right stuff? It's this type of vulnerability that does get tiring as zerg...I'm starting to consider switching to a race with a little more early firepower and less implications to factors that are difficult to control.

If you want to beat a zerg player easily just hide your build fairly well and they'll be lost.

I've heard some players call sc2 a lottery game...when I get frustrated with it I agree...

that's one of the few things I'll complain about with zerg. You have to rely on your early game scouting yet sometimes it doesn't catch what it needs to and it's gg. I don't like that one bit...>=\
But I wouldn't know what type of alternative could exist...I don't want zerg to scout too easily, then it would be way too easy to know how to respond to an opponent and bend the game in the opposite direction....I just hate feeling like sometimes it's a roll of a dice and you have to wish for the best of luck in your scouting...that needs to change somehow and I'm SOL with ideas. Granted, every race relies on scouting but with zerg I feel like it's gg if you don't catch early tech games.

I guess i'll have to look at it this way. Send in my drone and patrol within their base as long as possible. Gas steal and if they take it out early get suspicious of gas intensive builds. Sac an overlord and hope for the best and pay closer attention to their unit composition (that way if I don't see a starport, but no tanks or something else I can sorta be weary of banshees...). In concept, there's nothing wrong with how zerg works early game, afterall early banshees are pretty much a win or lose, so it shouldn't be a walk in the park finding them to counter.

Ugh, I'm just tired of losing to strategies that dispense mass amounts of justice without giving me the same type of early game options against my opponent. Zerg aren't threatening enough early game...at least not to me, maybe I just don't know what options may exist out there...

They should consider increasing the default speed of the overlord slightly....

or I should consider abandoning zerg...since they take it up the butt and like it so much...sick of this race right now...I'm not trying to say there's imbalance....I'M JUST SICK OF ZERG TAKING IT UP THE BUTT AND LOVING IT! :spinny:

 

Erm early game rubish? We ware talking of the Zerg "Zerg Rush" Zerg right?

 

I think zerg is rather underpowered..

- They can't wall off at all, so DT's and other units can just freely walk into the base.
- Scouting is way harder: Terran has got those scans, and protoss has got observers. The only good scout zerg has got, are overlords. I think this is quite unfair, because most of the time the overlords die, so you have to sacrifice 100 minerals to get the scouting they get ' for free '
- Anti air: To get decent anti air, zerg needs to get tier 2, and spend 150/100 on a lair first. I know, queens can shoot air and are tier 1, but you can't really use them to attack, because they're sooooo slow off-creep.
- Scouting tech buildings. Zerg has 1 tech building for every unit, so if an enemy sees a B'ling Nest, they'll know you've got banelings. If a Terran gets a Barracks, with a Tech Lab, they can still make 5 types of units (theoratically) This makes it way harder to know what a Terran/Protoss is doing.

I know, zerg have their advantages too, but I still think Zerg is slightly underpowered.
I do however want to point out that SC2 is really balanced, way more than, for example, Call of Duty (grenade launcher and g18 )

 

I agree with ikkabotZ
but shame on you for dubble-post xD

and to WhiteWalls...
if you need to defends DT's just build 1-2 spinecrawlers and a Sporecrawler at your ramp so they'll die for running in there

 

I know, it was just an example, but it still sucks that zerg can't wall off. It's way easier for the opponent to scout earlygame; they can simply walk into your base. Protoss and Terran can wall off (well Protoss can at least partially wall off)

 

u shouldnt have a problem if you scout out what their going to have o.e

 

The way I see it, Zerg isn't unbalanced, but "tilted". And since that's a term invented on a different forum, let me explain.

"Tilted" means that Zerg isn't underpowered in itself; we have proof of this from the popularity of Zerg in higher leagues. We know that Zerg has the potential to win any matchup. Now, what makes it "tilted" is that Zerg takes more skill to use to its highest potential.

For example:

A player with 75% skill can use Protoss to 75% of their potential. However, that same player with 75% skill can only use Zerg to 50% of their potential. While this looks unbalanced on paper, we can assume (from Zerg's popularity in higher leagues) that instead of Zerg having 100% potential like Terran and Protoss, Zerg actually has 125% potential, which is more difficult to achieve but possible in the right hands (high-league players).

In summary: Zerg may have the highest potential to win, but in order to make use of that potential the player using Zerg must significantly outplay an opponent using Terran or Protoss.

Anyway, that's what I mean by "tilted".

My reasoning to support this thoery is that Zerg is prevalent in higher leagues where skill levels are much higher, but are widely considered underpowered in lower leagues where skill levels are lower. Since the less skilled players can't as easily outplay their opponents, they lose more often.

So...yeah. Just from the point of view of this bronze/silver/platinum/diamond guy ^_^