Why mechs and not insect like machines?

I didnt think ppl would get so interested in this topic but thats good

Now for a little more explanation on my side.

You say that you can damage the legs and the flat tire example:

Ok, well thats just silly if you have 2 legs and you damage one you're toast. If you have 6-8 and you damage one you can still move.

As for sturdiness: Think of it this way.

A siege tank. Same idea fora quad, or a 6 pad (lol?) they dig in with the back legs and shoot the big gun without having to siege unsiege the wheels.

As for the better protected pilot, if there is a pilot, you can make a iron ball for the cockpit, and not have an actual cockpit thats usually more vulnerable.

Also for movement:
8 legs = 8 little movements, meaning one little mistake wont tip it. Whereas if you make a wrong move with one of the 2 legs that might spell dissaster.

Also, i think that with 4-6-8 legs there is an option to climb walls and cliffs much easier.

What i thought of originally making the post is the robot from The Incredibles:
http://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/misc/notrocs/robot.jpg

Also, the protoss, a highly technologycal race, has only 4 legged robots and the colossus( a machie Purely for destruction)

And insects have been around for a lot more than us, and their evolution is millions of years ahead of ours. The only reason humans ar eat the top of the food chain is the hands we have and more specifically the fingers.

 

1. Opposable thumbs.
2. Intelligence.

And about the pilots confort whilst piloting... The 6 legs can be automated with a spiders AI, think of it, this way the pilot only has to chose which direction to move in.

 

Yeah, i agree that 6 legs should not be a problem to move around. I mean cmon, protoss are pretty much like humans. 2 legs 2 arms etc. They have no problem with moving 4 legged things around. And you can program its AI like Ghost says, so that should be the least of your problems.

 

BoydofZINJ: Do you honestly think that our phisical characteristics made us dominant? Ever since we started using our brains our phisique started degrading drastically. We are slow, weak, can barely smell or see, I don't think I need to go on.

I very much like the multi-legged robot idea though. I imagine the operation could easily be solved, something along the lines of what can be seen in Robot Jox. The operator is basically fitted by his waist and he walks on a touch sensitive pad which inputs the procedure of walking. The robot could easily mimic the moves with its legs.

 

People keep failing to mention a major point. Quadrupedal and beyond can't hold swords. Can you imagine a Mega-Zord with ten legs? I think not!!

*Props and owerup: to anyone who gets that*

 

Power rangers? What?

 

Here's a thought: humans are not dominant. We are dominated by, and at complete mercy to microbes and insects. It isn't even from a population standpoint, the actual mass of insects globally, and the mass of the environment directly affected by them, is much, much larger than the impact humans have. If it came down to a battle between Humans and insects, for the survival of one, the insects would win, probably almost instantly. If it were between humans and microbes, you lose the 'almost' and just have 'instant loss.'

At any rate...
6 legs are better than two in pretty much every area, as has been noted, that does mean that they have more things to lose, but it also means that if they do lose one, or even a few, they can still function. They just adjust their gait and keep on going They might wobble, slow down or something, but they are otherwise fully functional. they may even be able to fully regrow the leg at their leisure, since it is probably a simpler structure, having to only support a 4th or 6th of the creature's weight instead of a full half. If a human loses a leg, just a one, they are screwed. Having two legs means that much more brain function is dedicated to balance, and that kind of coordination is, I imagine, more difficult than coordinating some legs. I mean, millipedes coordinate over a hundred and they have brains the size of specks of dust. If the locomotion is hardwired into the organism, it requires no real effort for it to move. Bipedal creatures cannot move nearly as fast as quadrupedal creatures (on land, after all the fastest animal in the world is bipedal), although they typically have more agility.
The only reason humans are limited to two legs at all is the fact that their ancestors needed to give up a couple in order to gain the advantage of manipulating the environment.

In StarCraft: Terran units are made bipedal as part of their character. Have you ever noticed that the Protoss have absolutly no wheeled units? They resort to creating units that crawl along their bellies, like a slug, before going to wheels. Think that's an accident? No. The designers chose to do that specifically to make the Protoss distinct. The same is with the Terrans (and the Zerg): their method of travel has to be distinct and characteristic for that race. A four-legged walker is something the other races would do (and notice that they do) and is therefore something that the Terrans don't do, in order to set them apart.

Fenix: The number of legs a creature has has no bearing on its ability to hold a sword- that would go to the number of arms. Picture an Immortal with, instead of guns, two big, long swords, like some sort of mounted knight, or a Centaur. It could happen. I imagine a ten-legged Megazord wouldn' get knocked down as often either, as, and I admit I haven't seen any recent Power Rangers, their Zords typically do.

 

Well said 10-Neon.

I just had think that multi legged creatures > 2 legged creatures so, one would wonder why humans being so creative dont invent one.

As for that speed aspect you talked about, the fastest animal might be a mamal but only due to their size, imagine a dog sized roach, man that thing will be fast

And yeah, 4 legged things belong to protoss and zerg not terran,still a intersting idea imo. I really envision the new siege tank on 4 legs...Idk if you guys have seen a manga show called "Ghost in the Shell" but in the end the main char "fights" a tank, and the tank has 6 legs and massive guns...pretty sweet.

 

Thats helpful, because Ghost in the Shell doesn't have like 50 thousand episodes and 20 movies... >.< and then 50 Move-Episodes.

 

realistically, we wont see terran vehicles with more than two legs because this has been done by the protoss; stalkers, immortals, collosus.

also, if you are going to have an AI drive the mech for you than you may aswell let it do everything else, military vehicles will always be fully under control of the pilot because AI will always be dumber than the pilot.

 

You can debate whether or not we are truely dominate or not. You are also right there is more to our legs than what made us dominate. However, you can not deny the people that are piloting the vehicles are humans since they are part of the terran forces and probably easier to use 2 feet/legs than 6+

I was hit by a basketball today. I almost fell down. I just adjusted my legs a bit and I remained standing. (There was no head injuries)

Bipedal animals
Bipedal movement has evolved a number of times other than in humans, mostly among the vertebrates. The most obvious example of bipedal movement is among the birds and their ancestors the theropod dinosaurs. All dinosaurs are believed to be descended from a fully bipedal ancestor, perhaps similar to Eoraptor. Indeed, among their descendants, the larger flightless birds, the ratites, such as the ostrich, perhaps epitomise the capacity to move bipedally, able to reach speeds of up to 65 km/h. Likewise many theropod dinosaurs, especially the maniraptors, are believed to have been able to move at similar speeds. Bipedal movement also re-evolved in a number of other dinosaur lineages such as the iguanodons. Some extinct members of the crocodilian line, a sister group to the dinosaurs and birds, have also evolved bipedal forms - a crocodile relative from the triassic, Effigia okeeffeae, was believed to be bipedal [1]. Larger birds tend to walk with alternating legs, whereas smaller birds will often hop. Penguins are interesting birds with regard to bipedality as they tend to hold their bodies upright, rather than horizontal as in other birds.

Bipedal movement is less common among mammals, most being quadrupedal. Some animals can also be trained to walk on their front limbs. Humans can learn to walk using solely their arms, it is called handstand and hand walking.

I found this using google - Advantages:

Bipedalism and associated traits can offer a species several advantages:

Improved perception. Some evolutionary biologists have suggested that a crucial stage in the evolution of some or all bipeds was the ability to stand, which generally improves the ability to see (and perhaps otherwise detect) distant dangers or resources.

Free forelimbs. In vertebrate species, for whom evolution of additional limbs would be an enormous genetic change, it can serve to free the front limbs for such other functions as manipulation (in primates), flight (in birds), digging (giant pangolin), or combat (bears).

Wading. Raccoons and some primates may adopt a bipedal position in water, allowing them to stand or walk in deeper water while still breathing air.

Faster movement. In animals without a flexible backbone, such as lizards or cockroaches, bipedalism may increase running speed. However the maximum bipedal speed appears less fast than the maximum speed of quadrapedal movement with a flexible backbone - compare the fastest bipeds the ostrich (65 km/h) or the red kangaroo (70 km/h) with the fastest quadruped, the cheetah (103 km/h).

Greater reach. Gerunuk antelope adopt a bipedal position to browse the leaves from trees.

Camouflage. It has been speculated that bipedalism in octopuses allows them to move while keeping the rest of their bodies still for camouflage.


Face attacker while directing anal glands. The defense posture of the spotted skunk, which involves walking on its forelimbs, allows the skunk to face the attacker while simultaneously directing its anal glands at them. The anal glands can squirt an offensive smelling oil.

Biomechanics:
Engineers who study bipedal walking or running describe it as a repeatedly interrupted fall. The phenomenon of "tripping" is informative with regards to the "controlled falling" concept of walking and running. The common way to think of tripping is as pulling a leg out from under a walker or runner. In fact, however, merely stopping the movement of one leg of a walker, and merely slowing one leg of a runner, is sufficient to amount to tripping them. They were already "falling", and preventing the tripped leg from aborting that fall is sufficient to cause bipeds to collapse to the ground.

Standing:
Energy-efficient means of standing bipedally involve constant adjustment of balance, and of course these must avoid overcorrection.

Walking:
Efficient walking is more complicated than standing. It entails tipping slightly off-balance forward and to the side, and correcting balance with the right timing. In humans, walking is composed of several separate processes:

rocking back and forth between feet
pushing with the toe to maintain speed
combined interruption in rocking and ankle twist to turn
shortening and extending the knees to prolong the "forward fall"

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In the same article I did find this as well:

Bipedal robots

ASIMO - a bipedal robot. For nearly the whole of the 20th century, bipedal robots were very difficult to construct. Robots which could move usually did so using wheels, treads, or multiple legs (see robot locomotion). Increasingly cheap and compact computing power, however, has made two-legged robots more feasible. Some notable biped robots are ASIMO, developed by Honda, HUBO and Albert Einstein HUBO developed by KAIST and QRIO, developed by Sony.


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I have always agreed that wheeled vehicles, treading vehicles, and hover vehicles are much easier to navigate. Besides most of us do know how to drive a 2 wheel vehicle or a 4 wheel vehicle. On this subject, why are cars built with 4 wheels and not 6?

 

Cars have four wheels and not six because, for the size, it would make it impossible to turn.

Also, for the bipedal thing, if those legs are digigrade, then it's almost infinitely better then more.

 

I will agree. size = more money spent. A 2 wheel motorcycle is cheaper because it requires less parts to make and a smaller frame since it only needs 2 wheels. A 4 wheel car would be smaller than a 6 wheel car and as a result it would require less parts and less money to make.

In terms of a mecha, I would imagine every extra leg added would cost more money and more parts to add the extra leg. Not just the leg itself but also the enhanced and larger hip. Plus you have to remember the KISS method. (Keep It Simple Sir) I would also imagine the part that wears out the most in a mecha would be the knee joints. Since they do the most work. Have more knee joints and you would increase the cost of the mecha, I would imagine.

I will conceed that a 6 legged mecha would probably be as efficient if not better than a 4 legged mecha. However, I would imagine it would cost more and take longer to build. Is that extra cost and time worth it? If a leg cost 50 minerals and 25 gas and 3 seconds in game time to produce; would you want to add 4 extra legs? Would it be worth the extra stability to justify the cost and time to add the extra parts? I would imagine 2 "legs" would mean a smaller hip and smallre means it requires less metal and armor. And then each leg probably has a set cost (in terms of metal used for the parts and the added electronics and the armor). Economics is also a factor in Starcraft 2.

As for the evolution part. Has anyone ever had knee injuries? They are one of the worse injuries you can get. Imagine having 6 knee injuries.... talk about pain and treatment. Or worse imagine having 5 knee injuries and 1 "good" knee.

 

For whoever said If you have 6 legs and 1 messes up your ok try taking a leg off an ant and watch what happens. It certainlly doesn't just keep walking.

 

You realize he was talking INSECT like, not animal... no use bringing up the evolutionary traits of mammals. I for one stand that the Spider who bit Peter Parker was hella badass, and if you could simulate arachnid movement in a machine it certainly destroy any bipedal or quadrapedal design. Im pretty sure I don't need to elaborate on how fast a spider can be, in fact even roaches are hella fast, now if that size to speed ratio was applied to a machine it'd be devastatingly fast. I only suggest an arachnid design because roach mecha would be hella ugly. Insects dont suffer from knee injures unless you completely remove its leg, a knee injury is most commonly attained when falling forwards, not a threat to an insect.

About costs, I doubt anything in SC has its efficiency and practicallity emanated in its cost. The Thor would have to be the same amount or resources as a command center with a planetary fortress.

Plus, how are octopuses bipedal if

A. They live in the ocean
B. They have 8 legs/tentacles??

 

I am not an octopuss expert - i got it from a website. So we can research that but i dont feel like it.

Let us think economics and build time. In Broodwar, a Goliath takes 40 seconds and 100 minerals and 50 gas. Let us assume each leg is worth 10% of that. In other words, the two legs of the Goliath would mean it takes 8 seconds to build and 20 minerals and 10 gas to use to construct it (10 mineral and 5 gas per leg). What advantage would it be to have 4 more legs? The disadvantage would be it would take an additional 16 seconds to produce and an additional 40 minerals and 20 gas to make. What would justify Goliath with 2 legs which is being made 16 seconds faster and costing 40 minerals less and 20 gas less versus the 6 legged Goliath that cost more and takes more time to produce?

Let us assume it moves faster? Let us assume it can crawl over walls? On a map like BGH how does that help me?

There are vehicles that have more than 4 wheels. 18 Wheelers have 18. They are used for transport and are much more expensive and bulkier to use than a standard 4 wheel truck, for instance. Ever replace tires for your vehicles? Imagine the maintaince on 14 additional wheels.

 

You have a point and I think that it is decided that bipedal mechs are better for a variety of reason but mainly because they are cheaper.

 

BoydofZINJ: If there are more legs, they can be weaker to hold the same hull, which means each leg would be cheaper to produce, simple as that. The overall cost might be higher but even that would pay off if we could target certain parts of a unit and make it topple over/render it useless. Imagine it was implemented in SC2, which unit would be easier to deal with? A 2 legged robot or a 6 legged one?
"Let us assume it moves faster? Let us assume it can crawl over walls? On a map like BGH how does that help me?" I don't know that map you're referring to but it's obvious that units have different values in different environments/battles.

 

2 > 1..duh?

What if each of the 2 costs 1/2 of the 1?

Number of legs doesnt decide the final cost...

And yes, taking away one of the 6 legs will make it more difficult to move but not impossible. Now take away one of the 2 legs and try walking in a mech.

Cost is not really the issue, its the efficiency that matters, even if costs is in, there are ways to get around it.

 

let us put it in terms of wheels. Having an 18 wheeler does that make the wheels cheaper if you had to replace all 18 wheels?

I do believe cost IS the issue. If you had Goliath A that is 2 legged and cost less than Goliath B with 6 legs - why would I want a more expensive Goliath? What advantage would a more costly Goliath do versus a cheaper unit? If building 10 Golaiths with 6 legs cost as much as building 14 Goliaths with 2 legs... why I not want the 14 Goliaths, for example?

Order and buying in bulk can reduce costs; however, there is still more overhead. I put the legs at 10% of the cost of a goliath and thus two legs are 20% of the mass/cost- which is pretty low IMHO - for an object that is roughly 33% of the mass of the goliath itself (I assume).


BGH = Big Game Hunters map. It is a roughly flat map with water.