Whos comments are more worthy of being listened to by blizzard? READ FIRST

i voted for good because there are idiots and some people who think they know SC which can make me very angry

 

Lemmy I know i do not qualify for your first catagory or am anywhere close to it. But i dont believe i belong in the second catagory either there are people who are not pros that can appreiate balance and have good ides. You do need to add more choices to your poll because right now boht choices would be horrible if blizzard listens completely to either one. In my opinion both groups should be listened to equally not each person but each group because as a group both sides can have good ideas and any single individual wll be biased.

P.S. also the way you described casual gamers is insulting and either you need to modify it or you need to be more distinct about who your talking about.

 

I didnt read everything, but i'll just throw in my 2c.

The fact that they did what they did with the campaings so far is showing that they care for both types of players. Im sure neither of those will be disappointed and both should be listened to.

Bottom line is, you pay, you say.

 

Uh, well you did call them "godless bastards" didn't you?

 

Alright it was bad to divide the community into two groups. However I added a third and fourth option to the poll. You still know what I mean.
Pity I cant reset the replies, maybe an admin or a mod can do it? You know, start from zero? Remove my previous mistakes?

 

Lemmy, just wanted to give you a lil bit a props for being able to handle our feedback and respond appropriately by going back fixing something as opposed to just lashing back out and being a jerk.

It's nice to see some humility in ppl

 

Well. I was wrong. Should have explained my position better. Thats about it.

We will see in the poll results which group wins, anyway.

 

<3 <3 <3
YAY LEMMY FOR BEING MATURE!!!
<3 <3 <3

Ok, I reset it. Let the voting re-commence!

 

Uhhh..... you guys are prolly gonna yell at me, but i was wondering if u could add another option, I want to vote for both casual and good multiplayer...please?!?!?!?! :'(

 

Pro gamers have been pro gamers at other games, you just move from one game to another, and you just learn the tricks.

Casual gamers are people who play for 1-2 hours and enjoy certain aspects of the game.

Pro gamers are people who play 7-8 hours a day and enjoy hard competition whether in SC or something else.

Just felt like sharing

 

This is a non-issue. Blizzard has already stated that the core game would be designed around hardcore gamers.

Believe what you will but there is very little point to balancing a game based on casual gamers. Competitive multiplayer games are enjoyable in the end because of all the balance work done under the surface, things that casual players don't understand and don't even care to know about. But the end result is still enjoyable to the general public and the average casual gamer, but not because it was designed around them.

Most games that have a heavy focus on serious competitive multiplayer gameplay are pretty much the same way. The things that effect casual gamers and are designed with them in mind are usually only control and interface, it needs to be functional enough for hardcore gamers but still approachable enough for casual gamers. Balance is completely different, input from casual gamers really don't mean much as they do not really understand it. That sentence might sound like a put down at first glance, but if you think about it carefully, that's just simple truth.

As for lore, I really don't give a rat's ass personally. I think gameplay will always make the lore and not the other way around, even if at the very beginning the lore came first to set things in motion in the brain storming phase of the game. After the rough shape of a game falls into place, lore takes a backseat and is really whatever the game needs it to be. If Mario grabbing things with a third arm was a key gameplay mechanic in the Super Mario games, Mario would've had a third arm, it's that simple.

Anyway, my post is getting long again, so... I voted "the minority." "Good multiplayer gamers" isn't very correct wording becase not all hardcore gamers are good, even if most good players are hardcore. The opposite to casual gamer is hardcore gamer. And in the opening post, Lemmy said one group wants Planetary Fortress and the MS axed, but I want PF but also super MF, so I don't know about that being one group in every case.

 

I dont agree at all with Lemmy's black and white distinction between casual gamers and pro-gamers. Just because some one is not obsessed with the game and spends all waking hours playing the game doesnt make them a noob. I have been playing starcraft since it came out and still play multiple times a week. I wouldnt consider myself pro though as i usually play with friends on the same network, and dont play in tournaments. I HATE fastest maps and most of the mods (the risk ums is okay) so would that make me pro, if only i didnt love playing the campaign which makes me a noob (playing through the campaign didn't compell me to throw the game away though).
Anyone who likes starcraft and plays it should have a say in how the second ends up.

 

I don't think we are talking about balance so much as just general opinions, Rem

I mean it's obvious (or at least I hope it is) that balancing a game with casual gamers in mind is not a good approach to development. Like you said, most of them wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you asked them about it. They comment more on the aesthetics and user-interface aspects of the game, to paraphrase and build upon what you said. Hardcore gamers would also comment on aesthetics and user-interface stuff, but a lot of them would comment on balancing as well. I think maybe it would be better not to ask "Who is more worthy to be heard?" but rather "Who should be listened to more?" as a video game should neither be all-balancing nor all-aesthetics (yes, the second question is poorly articulated but you can gather what I mean). And Blizzard has already stated that in response to the second question, the answer is hardcore gamers.

 

Just let them do what they did for starcraft. Problem solved.

 

Inclusion/exclusion of particular units, no matter what the nostalgia factor, has a direct impact on game balance. So as far as that goes, I don't think casual gamers should have the say on that, but their opinions and wishes could certainly still be taken into consideration.

If it's only aesthetics, it really doesn't matter. I think the input of hardcore gamers carry no more weight than the input of casual gamers on the matter of aesthetics. It makes no sense to say someone knows what looks better visually because they spend more time on a game. It is a purely subjective and personal opinion. If enough people think something looks good, it looks good, doesn't matter if they are hardcore or casual gamers.

But I think game developers really shouldn't worry too much about what fans feel about aesthetics, unless it's an overwhelming outcry on a single particular item. You can never satisfy anyone and there will always be someone that will complain about aesthetics, but the developers probably already have a direction that they want to take things. I think community input is only very important when it comes to balance, and like I said, that should be taken from the hardcore gamers.

 

Casual Gamers


Casual Gamers move the market and are the success or failure of a company. Most games get the fan club or dedicated player base that loves the game and plays it all the time. All games get the noobs that spam the game. Only the good games get the casual players. Only the games that appeal to the casual gamer really ever succeed. The casual gamer is the middle or upper class working people who have the money. Most of them don't have time to become really obsessed with a game. They want to sit down, have fun, and have a balanced game.

Contrary to popular thought, most casual gamers DO want quality and WON'T be happy with just anything that is thrown out. If Starcraft II doesn't appeal to the casual gamer then the truth will get out in reviews and such and the game WON'T SELL. If the game doesn't sell then the player base shrinks and soon all you have are the pro gamers and experts. Many games fall into this category. If Starcraft sticks to those whom will enrich the community then they are planning on a smaller game base.

Casual Gamers will play if the game is good. Take their advice every now and then. Even though they don't memorize unit damage and health, they still can pull their own in melee games! I play semi-casually (I play a lot though, so I am not all casual) and I pull my own in lots of games.

Essentially, take the opinion of a casual player into consideration because they will buy your game. They are the majority so your game can really take off if it appeals to them. I am not saying dumb it down so the mainstream loves it but don't leave them out or else the game can be quite boring.

 

I voted for the most skilled players. Obviously they have a better understanding of the game and its mechanics. Units and techniques considered useless for the majority, the mass & attack command community, are used to great advantage by these skilled players. Things cried about by newbs are easily countered and balanced in the eyes of skilled players. Things that are truely unbalanced will be seen by the skilled players as well.

 

I already apoligized, read the whole topic before barking at me, moron.

 

Ok paragon I start to get it by now. All your comments have been nothing but irony, sarcasm and you were never serious to begin with, and have been joking al the time.... right?

 

I think there are alot of different ways people enjoy a game for example someone might like developing strategy and improving in multiplayer games while another player can get the same enjoyment playing through the campaign as if it was a movie they're controling, and a third might get on the editor and make custom maps, go on b.net play other people's maps and get better at that. Of course this doesn't rule out someone from being all of these or something completely different.

When someone says this is the way the game should be enjoyed and it conflicts with what you liked about it, then you get frustrated because no one can really tell you how to have fun playing it.

So I think everyone's thoughts should be respected.

If pro gamers want a balanced and strategical game that shouldn't give others who are not so concerned about ranked games any less of a say. People who yell on b.net about flashy things (annoying as they are) should still get a voice, so instead of completely ignoring them maybe make more in game cinematics during single player or more movie style cinematics which wont conflict with the pro gamer's enjoyment of a balanced game.

I think they are doing what they can to not impede on anyone's style of play, realisticaly there will always be someone who is disapointed with the game but hopefully they can balance it so the vast majority of people can enjoy a single or all aspects of the game.