Which are you looking forwards to more? StarCraft2 or Diablo3?

can i say both equally? lol

 

I gotta agree with GMG. Regardless of whether the point of it is playability or replayability, it's very bad game design. To have replayability, it needs to have playability. Suddenly dumping a Duriel-sized boss on someone when they don't expect it, purely so that next time they play they have to realise they need to start saving potions earlier, is bad, 'cause what are they going to do then? They've been heavy on the potions, and after their first encounter they'd have used even more, so if the point of Duriel is really to have the player with as many potions as possible, they're stuck. What happens then? They've gotta grind levels, without any quests or anything, and collect the rough equivalent number of potions that they would have collected from completing Act II. No-one wants to get stuck like that. It's boring, pointless and excruciatingly tedious.

The character that I most enjoyed playing as was my first Barbarian. Named him Darogath, for no apparent reason, so you shoulda seen my reaction when I entered Harrogath in Act V. Anyway, I remember within the first six levels I had a Bardiche, socketed with a Chipped Ruby, and I'd put all my skill points into Axe Mastery. That's how shockingly this character was being played. By the time I'd beaten Baal, I had about five to ten points in each of Leap Attack, Whirlwind and Double Swing, with Axe Mastery maxxed out, had been going around with The Cheiftain since the beginning of Act IV, socketed it with an Ort Rune in Act V, and took down Baal with my mercenary Barbarian who was armed with a Great Sword with the Malice runeword.

I'd gone on and played a few other characters, mostly single player, a couple multiplayers, being a Werewolf Druid, Lightning Sorceress, a Bone and a Poison Necromancer and another Barbarian, since I'd lost my original Barbarian file. A while later I managed to recover my old Barbarian's file, and you shoulda had a look at that skill tree. Everything was everywhere. I had points in useless skills, like Double Swing, when I'd been using a two handed weapon, Find Potion and Find Item, Increased Stamina and Increased Speed, Leap, etc. It was the most useless skill tree in existence. I'd ad libbed the skill points and spent more than a couple in others, just to see what they were like. Still, it was by far the most enjoyable character ton play, and I wouldn't be able to tell you almost anything about my other characters, the only thing coming to mind is being that despite dumping everything into Dexterity for my Druid, and despite also being a Werewolf, I had a horrible chance to hit in Nightmare difficulty, while my brother's Assassin, who I was playing with over LAN, despite having much less in Dexterity, still had about an eighty percent hit chance.

All in all, it's the playability that I remember and remember enjoying the most. So what if your uber ****? You couldn'ta been worse than I was, and I was still getting by, so it's obviously not about whether you've got the best character possible or not.

Also, I don't see where you get off saying you're lost running around cluelessly, not knowing what you're supposed to be doing. There were usually fairly obvious paths and the quests were hardly complex. I'm one of those guys who has absolutely no sense of direction in computer games, which is probably one of the other reasons I hate FPS's, and again, I got by alright.

Replayability all depends on playability. You can't have a poorly designed game just because people are going to play it over and over. Diablo2 is definitely about building your character, but it's definitely not about whether you've got the best character you can possibly have or not.

 

I agree. With D2 and hopefully D3 the journey (and associated character development) is much more interesting than the finished product. Well there's not much you can do with a Level 99 character. Apart from pvp. As by that stage you've probably have the best gear you can reasonably find and the game is well finished too.

Both. But for different reasons.

SC 2 - I think I'll be playing that in short bursts. Doing a mission or two or a b.net match. Then have a break. Because the game has easily defined breaks (ie the missions) so I can stop playing for a while and come back where I left off. Good when I have a short time on my hands.

D3 - A huge time sink. And really sure their are quests and the like but there's no hard break between them, well there is but they are called acts. So I think if I have a free night to really sink my teeth into it, I'll be choosing D3.

 

Both. I usually played Diablo late night, and starcraft for break times.

 

Diablo 3. Not that I prefer either one for actual gameplay, I just hate how (retarded) SC players will assume you're a noob and ban you from a game if you haven't downloaded that version, or need to dl it again.

 

That is not my opinion.
I might have leveled up a thousand of times offline, and another thousand of times online, and don't remember at any stage having to think about anything. The only stage you actually have to think is when you think about a new build, then you're busy spending days to confirm if your original plan actually work or not. My opinion is that the full point of a good character in Diablo 2 is precisely to not have to think anymore when playing, just to be an invinsible tank or caster or whatever, and to play as dumb as the monsters in the game.

Well, this is the way I enjoy this game I mean.

The playability in Diablo 2 is absolutely indebatable, there is no point at all discussing that.
Generations of developers released "the next Diablo". They all failed, all of them.

And Duriel is definitely a key boss in Diablo 2, not a flaw at all: you have a tiny and uncomplete character, mainly using sh#tty equipment, and you are stucked in a room in front of a mindless and huge tank, which stats are just out of control next to yours.

This is Diablo 2.

If you don't like, don't play it, because most other monsters in the game are maybe twice or even ten times more disproportionnate than this boss, with just insane resistances or attack ratings or bonuses.
Have you ever been raped like a little girl by a single fallen or a spike fiend at the very beginning of the Hell difficulty level, while your barb or whatever was the ultimate killing machine in Nightmare, with some gear you almost consider this is kind of cheating, so much their features are impressive? Have you ever defeated alone one of those unique monsters in Hell, with two lines of bonuses so much the system is sitting on its keyboard, spamming all the possible abuses against you?

This is Diablo, this is RPG-action in a dark fantasy world, this is what we like.
This is not "bad game design".

 

Duriel is and flaw, and this is bad game design. You said why yourself by saying you need to start saving up potions right from the start of Act II for him.

Also, being hurled into a room like that is definitely not Diablo2, seeing as Duriel's the only boss like this. There is neither sufficient lead up to Duriel, nor do you need to be that powerful to continue on in the game. There aren't other bosses who are two to ten time more disproportionate than Duriel. Andariel's a good fight, Duriel can be near impossible, Mephisto's a cinch, Diablo's a tough, but good, fight and Baal's is a very tough, and potentially overwhelming, but good fight. Duriel stands out by a long shot.

No-one's saying it's a bad game, and no-one's saying they don't like it, but what with having to save up from the start of Act II, what with there being an insufficient lead up, and with some classes having a much easier time with him than others, you just can't say it's good game design. It's bad.

 

I'd just like to add one more thing. Duriel appears to freeze you when he hits you, but he isn't actually dealing regular freeze damage. After being slowed down by his attacks I thought to myself: "Damn, why did I sell all those items that halfed the freeze time of your character? They have only appeared in Act 2 and it's obviously so that you can defeat Duriel a little easier."
But NO! I was double fooled! I looked it up on the internetz and he isn't actually using true frost/cold, so having resistance to cold and items that reduce freeze time are absolutely pointless.

If that isn't bad game design, then what is? You shouldn't need the internet to understand a game.

 

If there was a "Tie" I'd pick that. Though, I did SC2.

 

Diablo 3.

I'm way more of a Diablo fan than a Starcraft fan, but I love both games massively.

Starcraft though right now, I'm revisiting more than Diablo. Playing through the campaigns again to refresh my memory. Every once in a while I'll hop on to B.Net and get destroyed a little game on.
Haven't played much in it's map editor though, because I usually fiddle around in the Warcraft 3 one. Hard for me to go back in time to simpler creating tools. Starcraft's lore is definetly way more deeper and intense than Diablo's.

But the reason I prefer Diablo is the sheer amount of fun and time I got out of that thing. I miss my account with 50+ characters from each class. Creating classes then getting them into the later half of levels (40 or higher-ish I'd say). Just having the knowledge that you have so and so spells doing so and so damage... dayum. Then there's the whole challenge of gearing up your character, without the need for 49, 4, 24, or 9 other people (HAR HAR WARCRAFT). Mmm. Immortal Kings. Mind you... you need other people on B.Net for trading to get pieces you want. But I've played just way too much Diablo to be swayed in this vote.

But I still like them both.

A lot.

Don't judge meh.

 

@ GMG. Yeah, that's another reason why some classes, and specs, are better against him than other classes. Not only does he deal remarkable melee damage, but he permanently snares anyone in melee range with some kind of demonic, blue, slowing aura that, for some reason, isn't cold. You're right. You shouldn't need the internet to understand what's happening to you, especially when you're used to them using such distinct and vibrant colour effects when you're poisoned, colded, etc.

I'd imagine, though I haven't really thought about this extensively, that the summoner/casters would have the easiest time, as they're able to slow him up and keep nuking him from a distance. It'd be pretty mana intensive, but that'd be better than being health intensive.

 

Duriel just uses a holy freeze aura:
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act2-duriel.shtml

No, you just need to use your brain, or to use internet properly.

If you can't defeat Duriel, just level up some more around, or get some help.
Or build a better character.

You obviously haven't think about this at all: the only way to deal with Duriel is to be a tank yourself, or to have a tank and/or some meatshield in your team, and the casters are precisely the classes who have the hardest time with him, as Duriel just tank you in a straight (and short) line, and there is nothing you can do much given your low armor and HP.

I do not expect much from you from this last reply, I just provide you the right pieces of information, coming from my own experience, which sounds obviously more developed than yours.
Unless you write something more relevant from now regarding this topic, which I doubt, I will not post any reply anymore in this topic, as I already said all I had to.

 

About the Holy Freeze aura, that was kinda GMG's point.

About not needing to look things up on the internet, you shouldn't need to look things up on the internet! I'da thought that would've been fairly self explanatory.

About having to use your brain, that's what GMG said he did. He'd learnt from the first time, and came prepared the second time, only to be slapped in the face when it turns out that there isn't actually a counter for the cold aura.

About if you can't beat Duriel, you shouldn't be forced to grind-level to that great an extent, you can't always simply go and get help, and if you build a better character, well there still won't be a sufficient lead-up to Duriel, so you'll get stuck in that same position.

About me obviously not having thought about which classes would be the best, you've misread what I wrote. I said the summoner/casters would have the easiest time, not the casters, as they're able to slow him up and keep nuking from a distance. So no, he wouldn't just tank you in a straight and short line, and there is something you can do given your low armour and health.

In short, you haven't addressed the issues about the cold aura, you've just stated more about it. Using your brain doesn't help, because you're led to believe that you can adapt to the situation but simply can't. You can't always simply get help, and rebuilding your character won't help because you'll end up in the same situation. Lastly, well, you just misread it is all, but even so, by saying that casters definitely have the hardest time, you've still demonstrated that certain classes are severely disadvantaged.

 

actually, duriel always slaugthers my Necro


@jissé, what do you mean, our group? some of us play single player too

 

GMG said his Necro had an easier time with his. What spec is yours? Necromancers don't have as many summons to help, not like the Druid, because there're no skeletons to raise, but they still have more than other classes.

 

i was a summoning Necro( i dont remember very clearly, long time ago, only that this guy ravaged my skeletal warriors and mages before they even touched him, same problem with Diablo, but not that bad)

 

Yeah, well I'm talking about a summoner/caster. Not a summoner, not a caster. The idea is that the summons hold him up while you're firing over their heads. It's basically a way of snaring him.

 

Starcraft2

For unknown reason I don't really care of what happened after the destruction of the World Stone in Diablo2.

But the cliff-hanger at the end of Broodwar with the secret missions.... Damn I want to know what will happen. The story was far from over in multiple ways in Broodwar, where in Diablo2, Tyrael took care of everything for you, kill the last boss and I'll decide of the world's fate for you.

Storyline of SC had more plot twist than in Diablo2. SC Story and Lore rocks my heart, well it will if the game ever comes out.

@Summoner Necro, Duriel is easy, if you put in all your points in skeleton summoning, they can hold a couple of hits with a defence paladin with you. once out of skellys, TP out get more and come back.
Diablo is the real pain imo. Your skeleton does not have resistance of any sort and gets raped by any spells he casts.

 

yes, but a necro summoner still does a lot of cast damage due to skeletal mages

 

But the Necro isn't dealing the damage by firing over the summons' heads. Skeletons are summons, not casters.