Western genre mix

No you silly billy, just because i have little knowledge on plumbing doesnt mean that everyone in the future would have no knowledge on plumbing. If you really want to find more efficient means of getting water i suggest you start browsing online. Even Tychus was smart enough to realise that point Overmind .

(See that btw Tychus? That WASNT an ad hominem because i addressed why he was being asilly billy and referenced the argument.)

Im getting pretty tired of addressing this point i'll do it as simply as possible so you might understand.

1. THEY ARE ON ANOTHER PLANET

2. THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED IN MAKING IT HABITABLE

3. THEY HAVE MARINE SUITS DOWN THE STREET THAT ARE AVALIBLE FOR PURCHASE

4. THEY HAVE MARINE TECHNOLOGY BEING PRODUCED WILLY NILLY

5. IF the cost of marine suits is applicable for the public, then the public would sure as hell be able to afford more efficient methods of getting water.

6. IF the technological advantage is enough for getting them to other planets, and fitting civillians with structures that can clearly take off, then the technological advantage is clearly enough so that said people would have more efficient methods of getting water.

7. IF companies and businesses have already setup, then it is pretty likely that they would use other methods of getting water - preferbly a means that is ALREADY technologically outmatched in our goddamn society.

8. IF Civillians can afford the technology for those cool hotrods - then they can afford the technology for a good water system

9. Upon collonisation of said planets - the creation of a good water system would be HIGH on the agenda, not the willy nilly creation of wells for random inhabitants.

Yes, but not as efficient as modern day methods. And as i just addressed, the cost is not going to be an issue.

Im arguing that they would use more advanced ways of getting water, i never said out of nothingness and i never said mysterious, the fact that you regard them as so just makes me think you have little idea about modern methods. Tell me, do you have a well in your garden? Which you use when you're in the garden for quick acess of water? Or do you prefer to go into the kitchen and get a drink that way?

 

Yes, but the burden of proof (probably not the best choice of words) is still on the one presenting the argument to provide an idea for the assumed better alternate, not my imagination or googling skillz, not that i was saying that an alternative isn't possible, just surprised you do not have an idea for an alternative to a system you perceive as inefficient.

If you're arguing that non-mechanized open wells shouldn't be a source of water for a reasonably sized town or city like the few we have observed on Mar Sara with features like the local armoury and asphalt roads there is no argument there. I thought that the point was wells at all in the starcraft universe would be ridiculous, i was thinking of small mining communities sprung up across the landscape set up on a readily habitable world by poor people trying their luck mining minerals, the kind you'd expect 'outlaws' like Raynor to go trying to keep away from areas of dominion authority if they are mobile even less of a reason to invest in more convenient water gathering methods at each location... A western situation like you were complaining yes, but wells would be a feasible and cheap method for a makeshift town of miners living mineral to mineral so to speak. And do we have anything to suggest civilian buildings lifting off? The only ones that i've even heard of the fabricated military/paramilitary bases seen in the game.

I turn on the tap and purified water from the local river which comes from snow/springs in the alps flows out. That river could very well be underground which would then need to be tapped, which is what a well is, although i'm assuming your use of well excludes the use of plumbing and is limited to the drop down the bucket and pulley it back up. A town the size of mine with the relative wealth of mine better have flowing water, i'm not arguing that it wouldn't even in the starcraft situation.

Since it's a bit of topic now i'll stop replying to the well argument if you agree, you can even have the last word aslong as you won't twist it into me giving up the argument

 

To the people that understand, it is becasue you are bickering like an old married couple. Stay on topic, if I have to give another warning I will lock this thread, or (if it is still just the two of you bickering) you may both get a temporary ban because you don't know when to shut up.

 

since i am an ass, i will pick on a post far back

you do realize that they dont have terraforming and only colonize planets with an earth-like gravity, atmosphere, and indiginous species?

why not, they are colonizers, with little rescources(some of the colonies dont have space travel), and the only thing the terrans are really advanced in is military tech

there is a reason we still have farms too, bub, so why wouldnt the terrans?

this is the main point: THEY DONT

most backwater planets dont have a starport, they might have 1 or 2 dropships from the olden days, but thats it

the only buildings that can take off and fly are military buildings, and then only the buildings used by marine squads and not by the troops on these planets themselves

we arent arguing that there is no western influence, we are arguing that most of these influences have perfectly fine explanations.
You are right that we are not american though, both Aurora and me are dutch

and as the ass that i am i will address them all

AND THEY CANT GET OFF! the normal people dont have access to space flight, and even the military has restricted access

IT ALREADY WAS

no, they dont, the marine suits are only available to the marine armies, and even the soldiers on these planets only get some used stuff

nope, if the military doesnt have access to new suits, do you think the civilians will?

the normal population doesnt have marine suits

they dont have the tech to take off, only the marine armies of the central confederate planets do.
Also, the towns on these planets are pretty small, you dont really need a big water plant to give a couple of hundred people water

on mar sara or other backwater planets, they dont have big busisnesses or big companies, just some local stores with local products

a hotrod?

[/QUOTE]

as i said before, there are a few hundred people on this planet, at most 3 or 4 thousand, if there were tens of thousands livng in cities, i'd agree with you, but they are scattered over towns, so they dont need massive amounts of water



closing remark: where did you get the idea that all this marine stuff was available to the public on backwater worlds?

 

This has little to do with my argument - as i already stated thousands of times its the fact that they have reached such a level of technological advancment and low cost on such advancement that it would render such means as in efficient. However as i already stated - wells would perhaps be appropriate for temporary settlements.

See my previous arguments. I have covered all of this many many times.

I was not referencing farms in the post you quoted, infact, i have little recollection of even complaining about farms . Unless you're trying to compare farms to wells which i think you would understand would be a silly thing to do.

There has been many many screenshots posted of Mar Sara with terrestrial forces, arms, and even buildings in the original that offer marine suits. Cant remember what they were called - bobs armoury? Bobs guns? Cant remember. The point is that if the technology for such advanced things as marine suits etc is as expendable to the extent of such a low cost then advanced forms of water gains even to the low extent as our modern day methods would be easily avalible.

But - yet again this is context bound as i have already argued and discussed.

I would wager a fair bet that the buildings here that share the same foot locks and design as the barracks are capable of the same thing. Why else would they need the feet in the desert? Floods? Rofl .

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/screenshots/ss104-hires.jpg

Regardless, even if they cant take off, they still offer a deep insight into the depth of the technology avalible. And prove that the price for basic technology that even outranks our modern day stuff is pretty much avalible to any old civillians.

Again - another point i have already addressed, please read through the thread before doing so. Unless it was deleted... In that case mods fail.

Some were arguing that there was no bricollage - this was down to his miss understanding on what a bricollage was. Again i wont go into more detail because im ****ing tired of repeating myself, despite deletions. And no, i dont know where you pulled the idea that people were arguing over the explanations or motives for why the influences are there, back that one up if you could.

Ok.

A lot of these stem from your idea that marine suits are not for sale - again, i'll try find you the name of their little stores ;D.

The rest i have already addressed, the well argument has been concluded and you are offering nothing new to the pool of discussion. I apologise but i have an art exam and i have little time to explain and form an elaboration atm.

 

bob's armory and bob's guns were inside jokes actually, not to be taken seriously

and the buildings on Mar Sara during the terran campaign looking like any other terran thingie was due to Blizzard not wanting to design new models(same reason UED looked the same)

 

Actually, I doubt Blizzard would really care about this whole thing...

 

Anyone seen the new Star Trek movie? They take a lot of the problems addressed here to an entirely new level in the beginning of the movie.

 

Oh, so you're point is right then? Did you perhaps open your mind and realise the other hundreds of reasons that they would not be using wells in situations i stated? Are you even arguing that? Infact, what are you arguing here? What is your point? Are you just here to disect my points without offering a rebuttle at all? Do you agree on the genre mix? Do you enjoy rehasing concluded arguments? Do you agree that wells would not be appropriate for anything other than temporary settlements?

Are you trying to argue that wells are... Are what? Plausible in what context? Please, try to have a point when you jump into a thread, a opinion with a point based on an argument would be nice. As i said - we have covered the well argument, it was concluded, you have offered nothing new to the pool.

Yes, they are clear remodels, this does nothing to change the fact that they use the same technology - if we are going to be lore gimps that is.

 

they dont use the same technology, the tech that you are talking about is only available to marines, and then only the most important brigades

and the well, well, its a well, if its all you need, then why bother making something else. the well suffices, and they do not live in enough luxury to spend their time and money on useless things (These worlds are really really poor), so they'd rather focus on things like getting enough food on their plate. Basically the same reason poor villages only have speedboats and not giant jaughts IRL.

well, my arguement is; The game does have some western influences, but since this can all by explained pretty well i think that it is just fine

 

It looks to me like ijffdrie is providing reasonable counterexamples that would demonstrate that what you assert is not necessarily the case. You need to show us that it is necessarily the case, because you are asserting that the presence of wells is contextually absurd. By providing reasonable, relevant explanations, he is very handily refuting your claim that the presence of this mixture of technologies is absurd.

If you'd like people to stop bringing up the the well thing, I would recommend:
-Citing some of the "hundreds of reasons" that we are failing to see, that would apply to the kinds of situations we are outlining. The situations we refer to involve such possibilities as, poverty, temporary settlement, adequacy for a given situation, etc. To be able to assert that open, non-pump, wells are completely out of place, you will have to eliminate all of these possibilities.
-Providing evidence that there is some way of addressing all of these scenarios that is indisputably practically superior to the one we are defending.

Toward the first, you will have to establish:
-That there is no situation in which a Terran settler would opt to own a "hot rod" over an advanced water delivery system. There are already citable situations in real life where this is not the case- where people live with their bare necessities, and spend the rest of their income on something they don't need at all. You will have to establish the ways in which a Terran settler would be psychologically different from a human from the 21st century that would explain this difference in priorities.
-After that, you will have to establish that all Terrans that are capable of surviving in unpopulated areas are also able to acquire advanced water procurement devices, and have no reason to settle for less.

Toward the second:
You assert that, being in "the future" means, necessarily, that there will be widely-available and universally superior ( i.e. more practical) technology that would make open wells completely obsolete. So far you have provided no evidence toward supporting this claim. This is not counting your oft-repeated, "it's the future, they're really advanced" -argument. As has been mentioned, it is not our responsibility to provide evidence for your arguments. If you want us to agree with you, you're really going to have to dig it up yourself.

Some other counterarguments we might put forward, you'll have to address these too:
-Is it possible that the advanced tech being displayed in proximity to the not-advanced tech is owned by someone other than the well-diggers? They could be well-connected military-types, just passing through.
-Is it possible that the well water isn't even used for drinking, and is only used for, say, washing equipment?
-Is it possible that the microorganisms native to the planet are not dangerous to human health, causing microbial contamination to be a non-issue? Or more clearly, is it possible that there are situations where there is no need for large quantities of pure water?

If you really can't come up with anything better than "it's the future, they're really advanced," I strongly recommend you just drop this one. Establishing that open wells and the StarCraft universe are (within reason) mutually exclusive, is a steep order to fill.