Western genre mix

You're the 10th person i have seen miss using the phrase ad hominem.

It consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

I addressed ALL the substances of their arguments and produced evidence. So erh, yeah read up on that one before using it >.<.


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Indeed, neither would I - what i would do and have done however is point out that the terran are clearly being themed as to go for a bricollage of the two genres.

A nod would indeed be correct, there seems to be some missunderstanding on what bricollage is.. It is the mixing of two genres - i provided an example (Firefly) at the start of the thread, people should check that out before posting when they have very little idea on genre. Not specifically you Neon.

Ok, in respect to the Well argument, It makes no sense that they would have wells and then a battlecruiser starport down the road, or civillian structures which can take off and fly. Realistically, there are millions of other ways they could accomplish getting to the water, the well in the future sure as hell wouldnt be the simplest.

Indeed, i have no problem with the shield, but i have a problem with populated areas using technology which we have already surpassed, but then having a absurd jump in technology down the road. Marine production facilities, etc. Its just absurd. The simplest way in the future would definatly not be the simplest way now.


Oh god, how do merge posts :/.

See the page before for other argument xD

 

What do you propose would be more efficient then the well, then?

 

How could they get the water? I dunno, im no plumber, its irrelevant to my argument. Im sure when blizzard present more of terrans technological capability you could try thinking it up.

If they can make a battlecruiser fly, then they can find more efficient way of gaining water than a damned well.

 

I don't see how anyone can disagree with Renatus' first post.

The trailers we've seen so far clearly show a blend of the western and sci-fi genre (and Tychus, that is a completely correct and normal way to use the word 'genre'.) This is not the first time this has been done by any means as has been pointed out, SC1, Star Wars, and most especially Firefly, in which they use revolver-esque guns.

I don't think Renatus' implied that this wasn't the case in SC1, but I agree that it seems a greater theme now, and not simply because there is more detail, there is a lot more effort put in by blizzard on the story/cinematic front nowadays that they have money to spare.


So back on point of Renatus' question. It does strike me as a little cliche at this point thinking about it, and part of me wishes they had come up with something a little different. Of course, we still know very little about the campaign and they probably have many other elements to keep it fresh. Firefly for example threw in a lot of Victorian-era atmosphere, which created a more unique blend.

Of course, this is just the Terran campaign and it is such a natural fit, colonizing space chasing down resources, on the run from authorities, battling hostile natives (well okay the other races aren't native but same battle over resources), etc and the Western genre is phenomenally badass.

So as long as the other campaign have completely different feels to them, which im sure they will, and they do more than just use elements of Westerns for Terran (also sure), I am happy.

 

The point is though that that would likely be more costly. And, as such, your argument crumbles.

@Fiasco: I clearly didn't say he used the word wrong. I said he's using it in a way that it isn't normally used; therefore, someone who has never checked the dictionary definition might not know what he meant.

Also, I think you misunderstood what exactly it was I disagreed with Renatus on (In case you meant me in your post) because I agree with everything in your post. I even agree with Renatus about everything you mentioned in your post.

The only thing I countered from his original post was that StarCraft is not set millions of years in the future. I'm actually quite surprised that he thinks it would take that long for Terrans to acquire such technology. Look at everything we, in real life, have accomplished in the last one hundred years. Now, imagine that technological improvement is exponential. Therefore, in 2500, technological advances could improve about once a year equal to us in the last one hundred years.

 

Fiasco wins for openly voicing his agreement with me!

Regardless, Tychus, my argument doesnt crumble at all. We have no idea about he cost of getting water in the future, dont assume that it would be such a big deal, if people can go and buy a marine suit at the store (+1 if you remember the name) then i fairly sure advanced water technology would be easy to come by and not very costly at all.

If we were to look at logically - if they were colonising planets, water gain would probobly be very high on the 'to do list' along with not being killed by residents. To not develop water gain quickly and efficiently... (Oh god, i just realised how dirty water from wells is too. I cant even understand why im having to argue why civillians would use wells ON OTHER planets, this is totally absurd) would be terrible for the business corporations. Logically it would be one of the first things they would get fixed up. Clean easy flowing water, not goddamn wells.

This entire argument is absurd without any context anyway....

 

It could go either way. It's pointless to debate.

Also, someone wins just because they agree with you? Looks like you went into this "debate" to be told you're right; not to debate things seriously and try to form an educated opinion together .. and that's not a very good posting habit.

 

First, the statement wasn't directed exclusively at you.

Second, I know what the term means. I'd look at post #12 on this thread and carefully reconsider any claims about your innocence in that regard.

 

I was just joking, it is a rare day that people openly voice their agreements with me. Dont be so argumentative :/.

I went into this thread to find out your opinions on the genre mixing. People like yourself had to be all politician style and ignore the whole point of the thread, instead trying to argue the ridiculous point that wells would be used on other planets, planets that create and house marines. Planets that have mercenary groups, planets that have stores down the road that sell marine suits, planets that have massive cities. I dont know if its some missbegotten psychological argument thing with you guys, that you ignore the purpose and instead try and argue a point that im sure you know very well is definatly not very likely at all. Regardless, I attempted to debate things with you guys but you continued to throw up incorrect understandings of genre, and failiure to realise basic logic.

12 had an argument with it. So it wasnt ab hominem .

But yes, it is rather irritating rehashing the basics of genre to a person who continues to claim that your argument is broken without having the decency to realise hes a bit miss in formed on the subject. .

 

We've done nothing but stay on topic and address your points.

I think you need to open your eyes.

 

Address my points? How about you guys address the point of my thread and tell me your opinions on the genre mixing with westerns? In a bit more detail perhaps?

Or do some of you still wanna try argue that there is no western genre mixing here?

>.<

 

No one argued that there was no western genre mix. With each post you prove more and more thoroughly that you're just a close minded terrible poster that doesn't even deserve what we've already given him.

Why would I waste any more time on you now?

 

The dispute over the occurance of western genre was bought up many times. Some seemed to believe the mix was not there.

Mr perceptive..

Aha, brilliant, you see these Neon? These are ab hominem attacks, the person decides to insult the poster, without referencing the argument at all, instead focusing on labeling the poster as close minded, and not deserved of their mighty presence. With ofcourse nothing to back up his claims apart from opinion, opinion based on... What? May i ask tychus? Did you finally realise that marines drinking from wells sounds a bit silly? Or do you prefer to base your insults on more conventional hominem hatred?

How am i being close minded.

How am i being a terrible poster.

Because hopefully you will have the decency to form an elaboration before your silly little high strung departure.

 

"I stated that there are MANY things that make it a genre bricollage between western and sci-fi. Not just goddamn voice.

1. Bar scene, in deserty outback."

Mar Sara.

"2. Music, noticably western in theme and style"

Mar Sara.

"3. Bar has undertones of olde fashioned bars, often found in western shootouts."

Mar Sara

"4. VOICE and dialog, accents."

Jim Raynor and Tychus Findlay are both from Mar Sara!

And for that matter, Texan accents are a Southern accent. (And people from, say, Wyoming (a cowboy state) don't sound like that. Usually.)

"next video there is even a Western style WANTED poster with even the stareotypical font!"

Which is also on Mar Sara!

Conclusion: Mar Sara is one planet in the StarCraft universe. Arcturus Mengsk never gave me a "western" impression (not surprising, he's not from Mar Sara). Neither did Sarah Kerrigan. I'm a bit iffy on Duke. This isn't surprising; Mar Sara is an important planet in the game (although, frankly, not in the setting) but it's not the only cultural influence of StarCraft.

(And for that matter, the "cowboy period" existed right after the collapse of the Confederate States of America, since the aftermath of the war was an important part of the setting. There are lots of ex-Civil War soldiers on both sides in many western books and movies, and also Southern belles. Even the wars against the native Indians came about because the Americans had stopped shooting at each other.)

 

Yes, Mar Sara is one planet in the starcraft universe, but it is a central part of the story, as you say it is where Tychus and Jimmy came from, it is where the zerg are again first seen after kerrigans slumber. If a deep western genre mix is displayed in these central pieces of plot and story it would be silly to not suggest that they will reoccur throughout the campaign. Im not saying that there is going to be western crap on jungle planets, im just saying; hey ok, obvious western mix is obvious, it was present throughout the original, what are peoples opinions on said mix.

 

You flame others for supposedly misusing the phrase ad hominem only moments before misusing it yourself? I've given you more than what was necessary but all you've done is be unappreciative and insulting while saying I haven't even responded at all (I guess you were just talking to yourself in your above posts). What's worse is that by the very same logic you've stated in this topic I'm not at all using ad hominem because I've already addressed your points. That was your defense. So, how come it doesn't apply to me? What's more is that I only gave into saying such things when you became arrogant and even more insulting by declaring that we haven't addressed any of your points. That's why you're closed minded. We've given you points but you ignore them because you don't agree with them. That's the epitomy of close mindedness and it's the very reason you're a terrible poster. I have backed my claim, so, it's even less ad hominem. You have now become the very thing you've flamed in this topic.

1) You misuse the phrase ad hominem when you said others misused it.
2) You argued that is was wrong to say that you were using ad hominem because you had addressed the points when that's exactly what I've done and you're still claiming I've given into ad hominem.

Like I said before, with each post you prove more and more thoroughly that you're an unappreciative terrible poster not worth the time to reply to. And, now you're on your way to becoming a hypocrite.

He disagreed with you on semantics and on the extent; therefore, my point still stands.

Now, since I know which direction this topic is going, I will now take my leave of such conversation. I've given what was asked and more than you deserve.

 

No, it is relevant. If you say that there are more efficient methods of doing something you need to present these methods, not go 'how the hell should i know?' and invite us to think tank something to support your argument.

So if people an go and buy a Ferrari at a show room, every community should be able to afford complex water purification plants now?

Wells are quick and efficient.

You're arguing they should have mysterious ways to snatch water out of nothingness and don't think they can distill water?

 

If you're arguing that the entire Terran race and mythos don't have a western/southern overtone to them, you're just being a stubborn jerk. Everyone knows that Terrans = hicks, and Earthlings = Russians. It's just the way Starcraft is. Arcturus Mengsk is clearly meant to be a Civil War Confederate character, anyone questioning that doesn't know square 1 about the Starcraft setting. It was called the CONFEDERACY, and their logo was the ACTUAL American Confederate flag from the ACTUAL Civil War. Why are you guys giving the OP so much ****? What do you think the Terrans are...Minnesotans? Europeans? Not even slightly.

After the end of the American Civil War, the vast majority of people that populated the "Wild Wild West" were post war Southerners. Naturally, Starcraft 2 is follwing a similar trend. The low quality of some of the posters on this site astounds me. Perhaps the people arguing with you aren't Americans, and really have no clue what "Western" really means?

 

I'm not arguing there's no western influences, i'm saying it's not excessive or for the hell of it.

You\re obviously not thinking very much about what terrans and earthlings are, battlecruisers are clearly Russian inspired and that is before the UED or 'Russians' even showed up in the sector, valkyries are German and even use German phrases and are UED, saying terran = hicks and earthlings = Russian is an overly selective observation based on a few characters.

And no, the story wasn't American Civil War in a space setting, if you muster enough perception to look past the symbolism that is obviously a nod to the genre you'd see deeper similarities to events like the rise of the German Nazi party and innumerable revolutions, which is why starcraft 2 can be more western influenced than starcraft was is posted, which we'll see about as more information and varied trailers are posted, kimera made an excellent point about all we've seen being Mar Sara, which is clearly heavily western based.

 

Sahara if you think this thread is representative of the average thread on this site then you haven't looked around very much. Also, if you look at this thread it is pretty much 2-3 people arguing, I am not sure about you but last I checked arguments happen everywhere.

As for the actual thread, everyone needs to cool it a little. If that doesn't happen, this thread will be forcibly joining the padlock thread society .