WC3 Developers Take Over(Terran Balancing Issues)

.....

if WC3 staffs take over....
still certain that it will stay the same? it would be bad news to hear new stuff like auras and unit stats and all... then it would turn into WC in space.....

 

Well. I will easily counter myself from earlier as I think my last post wasn't well established. I have to back both Jon and Remy up as this balancing is what I feared from the start when they said SC2 would be balanced. SC1 was balanced because some units where balanced to counter-act other units. Not to become super units. I.E. Ghost could kill whole base. Zealot could easily kill Ghost if not cloaked. Anyway, I really hope this does not become Starcraft 2: Warcraft in Space Pro Edition.

All units balanced and equal in everything/all units being OP=//=Good game.

 

dude, warcraft isnt bad it is just different, starcraft players like starcraft more, but warcraft isnt bad either, the races are mostly the same, but for some players that is enjoyable, starcraft is gold and warcraft is just plain good

 

Trust me, it's not Starcraft literally turning into WCIII in Space that worries me. It's just the race distinctions.

And thank you Remy for backing me up and complimenting me I'm almost blushing.

But this is why we need you here to step back and help take an objective view. And it also spices up a discussion with a good long text wall. Every thread should have one!!! (Another Puppy bites the dust)

The main focus of my ire in this entire thread is that I'm worried about the shifts taking place within the Terran lineup because they indicate a general strategic emphasis on the Terran infantry. Their units are being buffed heavily at the lower tiers, and it's pretty obvious that it's because the Protoss mechanics are proving overwhelming. Units appearing randomly around a Terran base are just too much at the moment. The Reaper can't get the job done alone, but lowering the Viking's tech level (because you can suddenly upgrade them and have a huge fleet) isn't a valid solution either, because it tips the scales too far in Terran's favor.

My best solution to the problem would be to approach as Remy suggested and I hinted at. Return to the original SC1 determinations of unit damage, etc. and redesign the races based on balancing that. However, this would have a negative effect on the "newness" of SC2 and would make it more similar to SC1, but if enough game mechanics were introduced, it could still be an improvement. But I don't think this is the correct option, although it's the simplest and most direct way to fix it.

What I propose is that Terran and Protoss development be completely halted instead of wasting time balancing the two races in their current state. Go back to the "drawing board" and determine what mechanics and unit strengths need to appear in the game and why. Finish the Zerg's development until they've caught up with the other two races, and balance mechanics accordingly.

DO NOT start switching abilities and unit tiers around (such as the slowing ability for the Cobra taken from the Stasis Orb). Right now what we're seeing is indecision because Blizzard has backed themselves into a corner as far as race identity development. They need to take a sharp breath and stand back to determine the correct course of action for each race before they proceed.

Make the Terran have a two-pronged option as a race. They can opt for strength in infantry and speed, specifically the Ghost, which needs to be nerfed. Or they can opt for the traditional mechanical approach. Against the Zerg, as usual, there won't be as much of a choice as the Terran will be forced to rely heavily on infantry, but against the Protoss they will have extended options.

I still think the Firebat is obselete and should be combined with the Reaper, which obviously isn't fulfilling its role as Blizzard had originally intended. The Viking should remain at the Factory and Terran needs to gain additional mechanics that enhance its race identity and simultaneously counter the Protoss' new weapons.

The Protoss need to have their units become tanks. That's not happening right now as the Terran HP is being buffed for balance reasons. They're too overpowered. So reduce their damage output again, but don't destroy their race identity by making the others stronger. The Stasis Orb needs to die, period. I'm not even sure that with the HT abilities that they even need that type of unit.

The Zerg need to be revealed, period. Show us what you have! Obviously you're not even firm on the Terran or Protoss, and since you are very susceptible to community feedback, we should at least be seeing the whole picture to give you accurate opinions and responses to balance issues. Don't half ass it.

I'm not a game developer. I don't know how this all works, but I'm pretty sure that right now the race identities have taken a turn for the worse because of the new damage systems and race mechanics that are, for lack of a better description, too cool.

 

What's happening is not that the race identities are being removed, it's that they're being changed. As I said before, as the result of the events in StarCraft and Brood War, the Protoss are simply not the massive war machine they once were. At the same time, even though the Terrans saw some ugly military defeats, they have grown accustomed to engaging fierce aliens over the last several years and are developing tougher units in order to deal with them.

In SC2, the Terrans will be the new tank race, with the Protoss being the new skirmishers. I mean, think about it, the only units they currently have that can handle direct combat are the Zealot and the Immortal, and the Zealot now has Charge, which allows it to take up skirmishing roles quite nicely. With the Terrans, while they are developing quickly in the area of infantry, it is still very possible for them to be an infantry "tank," as the infantry would be, for the most part, engaging in direct combat, taking damage.

Look at the new mechanics: Warp-in, Blink, Overload, cliff walking Colossi, Phase Prisms. The Protoss are now about being in the right place at the right time instead of being able to just take any engagement directly.

Compare that to the inclusion of the Thor, the Planetary Fortress, Marine Shields, buffed Firebats, Ghosts, and Siege Tanks. I mean, they're clearly not going in the same direction at all, but it certainly doesn't look like the same direction as the Protoss!

I also mentioned this in my last post: The WC3 team is the SC1 team. The only difference between the two is 10 years, some people, and a game. Interestingly, they key people responsible for developing "identity" in SC1 are not among the people who have left for greener pastures.

I understand that WC3's races lost some of their identity through the fact that there were four of them, and they were treated as if they were trying to build an RPG. Blizzard is aware of this, they've stated that they're aware of this by openly confirming that there will be no heroes, no fourth race, (almost) no autocast, and no auras.

To want to avoid everything that is WC3 is a very unreasonable and counterproductive desire. There are legitimate game mechanics used in the game that would work perfectly with SC2. Lets not burn down the barn just to get rid of the rats.

Don't worry about Blizzard moving units and abilities around between tiers, structures, and even races. This kind of thing is done with every game studio worth its salt. It is a process of finding where something actually fits, as in, in terms of gameplay. This kind of movement is the kind of thing that allows the developers to develop a racial identity, by letting them fit mechanics with the appropriate place in the game. That they are considering building a ground unit at the Starport and a fleshy unit at the Factory really has no consequence. These structures aren't supposed to literally produce mechanical units, or starships, they're supposed to be gates to different sets of options.

Blizzard, like other game developers, playtests its games continuously. Each change is like a scientific hypothesis, each set of tests is an experiment. Yes, they're doing things like moving units around, but they're doing it because they weren't working where they were before. Why was the Firebat obsolete before? Because it couldn't get to the front lines without dying. One solution, give the unit more health. Problem brought up, the unit is now too strong compared to other Terran infantry, move it up to the next tier. Conveniently, it moves into a slot recently vacated by another unit that had hopped to a different tier (the Viking), which itself, moved into to replace yet another unit. That other unit, of course, is now dead, poor thing.

What bothers me is that you guys rail on what Blizzard has done to the Ghost while you ignore the 800lb gorilla that is the Thor. I mean, talk about switching up racial identities, the unit is a tank of tanks, somehow stronger than anything even the Protoss can cook up. This doesn't bother you? I mean, I understand the concern of a 100hp Ghost, but if it really isn't meant to be, it won't be. It just won't happen in a game that goes through this much serious testing.

 

The reason that the Thor isn't much of a concern in my mind is that for all practical purposes, it's only a damage sponge. It's highly immobile and I don't even think it will be in the final build as its current self. It might morph into a faster and smaller version of itself that is more of a higher-tier Seige Tank, but I don't see it continuing as this huge and unstoppable unit, unless, of course, it gets a Nuke. Plus, the Thor still does fit the Terran concept of raw firepower. It's great for single unit contact at long range, but when melee fighting is involved, the Thor is still extremely vulnerable. It's really just an extension of the fighting concepts behind the Battlecruiser, which is why they're having such trouble with the unit in the first place.

But you can't act like taking different abilities from other races and placing them with the Terran is a good strategy. These abilities were designed with a specific race in mind and benefits for that, and suddenly it has been switched to a completely different race and theme. I mean, a slowing attack would be completely believeable with the Protoss, whose technology we couldn't even begin to understand, but an "electrical attack" that somehow slows units? Sounds pretty Warcrafty to me!

And I've said it before in this thread, I have nothing against WC3 aside from the fact that it had heroes and balanced 4 races as pretty much equals. They had almost no differences aside from theme and didn't even stick to those themes beyond a superficial level in gameplay. It's awfully easy to balance races when they have exact mirror images in the enemy lineup.

While you can't draw a direct parallel to the development techniques taking place in SC2, you can see a disturbing pattern. It's not acceptable for Blizzard to simply shift units and abilities around so that they become easier to balance for the sake of time at the sacrifice of the race theme.

This is essentially what is happening. The Protoss were overdeveloped with Mechanics while the Terran got relatively shafted in development. Seriously, what additions did we see with the two races so far?

Protoss:

Warp-in
Cliff Climbing
Moving Defenses
Charge
Blink
Force Fields
Portable Power (Phase Prism)
Time Bomb

Terran:

Improved Liftoff (with larger maps this is nullified a bit)
Cliff Climbing
Viking Transform
Thor's Artillery
Sensor Tower
Nomad Tower Drops

I mean, if you look at it, there are very few real mechanics changes for Terran. So when Protoss has enacted these new strategies, Terran is forced to counter in more conventional terms, like improving unit strength, instead of having sufficient mechanisms to counter the Protoss'. Even the mechanics that have been introduced for the Terran can't really be compared to what the Protoss have gained in terms of strategic use.

With a little more ingenuity the Terran could be effective combatants without nerfing the Protoss' theme of strength and pumping up the Terran units.

-----------------

I understand the idea that Blizzard is very experienced. But this development team is not the same one that developed Starcraft. Only 3-4 are the same, and the rest have come from the Warcraft Universe, which has heavily influenced their design for the last 10 years. Don't expect them to suddenly switch gears and be instantly in the mindset of the best Starcraft players and designers. And trust me, hardly any of these designers are any good at Starcraft at all and probably don't understand the way the units interact as intricately as some dedicated players. There are exceptions to this, of course, but most of the developers could be considered newbies when it actually comes to gameplay.

So this whole "playtesting" idea doesn't have much credit in my view. They can certainly determine unit strength, but I doubt they can investigate the full potential of different strategies and more creative ways to counter them.

And I said it in my last post. The reason that the unit tier shifts are worrying me isn't because of the shifting itself, it's that to me it's a warning sign of a more significant problem: that Blizzard is having a tough time balancing the Protoss mechanics that have been introduced and are solving the problem by bringing the individual Terran unit strength up to par rather than adding more interesting game mechanics for the Terran.

The Sensor Dome is a great step in the direction of new mechanics for the Terran, but it can't end there for their mid-game. The Cliff Climbing mechanic pretty much does nothing since all three races have that option, even though it looks as though Terran will have that ability first. But right now it looks like the Protoss will be very diverse in mid-game and Terran doesn't have much to counter.

My suggestion is that Blizzard build on the mechanics behind the Sensor Dome and create units and abilities that complement it. Just as the Protoss are centering around warp-in, the Terran need their own angle on combat.

 

Nice to see you back Remy.
Anyways, I would like to clarify myself because I think you have misunderstood me a little.

The reason I said that we don't have to worry that much and trust Blizzard as of now is simply because that the game is still in internal alpha stage. High Templars based on the last two Q&A's has undergone numerous changes this past 2 weeks. Therefore, I all those numbers that we are talking about like HP/unit costs are still subjected to change. BUT, if these numbers continues to exist right up till beta, now, that would be a totally different story.

10-Neon, the reason that both Jon and I (and now Remy since he has joined aboard ) aren't complaining about the Thor is that simply it's a Tier 3-3.5 unit. In Sc1, Terran's Tier 3-3.5 unit's HP/cost were on par with the Protoss units. However, I would like to express my concerns again. In SC2, Terran Tier 1-2 units HP are actually getting ONPAR with the Protoss units. It is taking away the Protoss theme and identity in the world of starcraft. Just look at the Protoss Zealot in SC1. 160 HP in total. They outHP every single Barrack and Factory units for the Terran. It's their theme and identity.

Just like Remy mentioned, WTF is with a Ghost roaming around with 100 HP and costing 100m/100g? They are onpar with the Dark Templars. If Ghosts comes at around Tier 3, I'm fine with its stats. But we are talking about Tier 1.5 here guys. Smell the similarities guys?

Jon hit the nail on the mechanics for SC2. Protoss are getting all the new and cool mechanics while the Terrans mechanics don't have that much of an impact compared to the Protoss. What does Blizzard do to compensate that? They improve the overall HP of the Terran units. That IMO is a big NONO.

As for the WC3 comparison, I would like to give my 2 cents on here. Wc3 is a totally different game. When it was first announced, Blizzard labeled the gene as an RPS (Role Playing Strategy). Therefore, we shouldn't compare WC3 to SC because they are aimed at different audiences. However, with all the recent changes lately, the race similarities are striking hard. It was the same situation that existed in Wc3. However, we all have to remember that SC1 was far from perfect when it was first released. When it was first released, the game was far from been balanced. It was not until the expansion was released and numerous balance patch that we got a good and balanced SC game. (took them many years to achieve that) I believe SC2 will most likely follow the same pattern.

 

i believe indeed that the terrans should get the most new concepts, humans are the adaptible race, protoss the mighty and zerg the erm... floody race

 

Neon, I disagree with the frame you are setting the Terran and Protoss in.  You say that the protoss have practically no units that can take direct combat but I disagree.  The Stalker is the only Protoss unit that I can think of that can't really take direct combat well, well other than the high templar.  Zealots and Immortals and Archons are all very much frontal assult units.  The Colossi, depending on how much HP and SP it has in the end may also be good at frontal assult, at least against the light units its supposed to go up against.

Now look at their fleet units.  Phoenixes are not skirmishers at all.  You cannot do hit and run tactics with this unit as to take advantage of their most powerful ability you have to stay and fight.  Warp-Rays are also not suited for skirmishing.  They are good at heavy concentrated damage over extened periods.  A skirmisher must be abel to hit quick, do a lot of damage and flee, that is not a description of Warp-Ray.  I don't think I even need to make an arguement for either the Carrier or the MotherShip.

Now about the phase prism.  While this will be very useful for the protoss mobility, the time it takes to warp units in and their vulnerability during this time will probably mean that warp ins probably won't be useful as a combat drop at least no compared to the recall ability of the Arbiter.  While out of combat, you could use this to bring in a large army or a small raiding force but it was not that difficult to do this in SC1 with arbiters or just shuttles.

My point so far is that I don't see the Protoss being the masters of skirmishing in this game.

Now lets look at the Terran.  Reapers are born raiders and skirmishers.  That is their role.  They are not ment for direct combat.  The Viking also fills the role of a skimisher, at least when fighting ground units.  I am going off the assumption that the Viking will return to the factory so it will be among the earilest air units giving it a huge mobility advantage early on.  Excellent for raiding expansions or even the worker lines at a main base or for gaining tactically advantageous position against enemy units.  Later on it still has a role as a capital ship fighter and not so much a skirmisher.  This is because the Terran, at the moment, have the best raider/skirmisher ever introduced, the banshee.  I have a feeling it won't be much against heavy units or buildings but light units beware.  A cloakable bomber perfect for destroying economies or skirmishing against armies with inadequate detectors or AA suport.  It is also not a direct combat unit.

I'm not exactly sure how to classify some of the other Terran units.  The ghost is definitely a skimisher with its snipe and drop pod abilities.  So I guess that unit probably belongs in the above paragraph.  Cobras are not skirmishes, or are they.  They lack the mobility of air or cliff climbers but they are supposed to be faster than most units and can shoot while moving so maybe they are even a bit of a skirmisher.  Siege Tanks are not skimishers.  They have horrible mobility.  Although they aren't a frontal assult unit either.  They fall into the siege catagory: poor mobility, huge damage, but vulnerable to attack.

The only units that really fit the frontal assult idea are, marines, medics, firebats, BC's and Thor's.  So I hardly see the Terran being the tank race.  They may be have stronger units than before and they may need some more interesting mechanics to really liven them up as Jon has said but they are still the medium hit point, medium cost, good skirmishing and fast expanding race.  Its just as Jon says, they could use some more mechanics and have their units be a bit weakened to balance the new mechanics.

PS, the dark templar is also a skirmisher unit for the protoss. I forgot to mention them, but that doesn't change my point.

Also at the crazy Dane, the Zerg are NOT floody, the Flood is Zergy. Get that straight.

And the Halo franchise is only a good FPS series, not an amazing FPS series.
Halo < Half-Life, Halo < Farcry/Crysis, Halo < Doom/Quake Halo < Unreal, Halo < quite a few other FPS's

 

Quanta: I can agree with you on the Warp Rays, but the Colossus and and Phoenix just don't hold up when units are going after them. Colossi are sitting ducks unless heavily guarded or on cliffs and the Phoenix's overload isn't something you can expect to use in sustained combat, it's something you hit once and hard with.

There is a big debate over the Siege Tank and the Ghost's newfound hit points. I think that would push them closer to the frontal assault category.

And to comment on your note about the Zerg and the Flood... all of these races are just generic "evil alien" races, just like like the Protoss are generic "good aliens" and the Terrans are generic "future humans." It's sort of a modern archetype, you'll see them everywhere if you're looking for them.

Jon: When you say "the rest come from the WarCraft Universe" you're talking about level designers, artists programmers, etc. A couple of the top designers jumped ship, but there are enough critical people still in place that it can still be StarCraft. And seriously, the entire SC1 team came from the WarCraft universe, and they'd just finished a game that was much, much more mirrored than WC3. I'd argue that SC2 is much better off, having several successful RTS games worth of experience behind it.

To address your concerns that the developers don't understand the nuances of the game, you have to remember that they do employ professional StarCraft players to help with the design and, I imagine, testing.

Using the cutoff you used for the Protoss, I would include the following to the Terran mechanics list: interchangeable addons, build queue doubling, remote troop deployment, and deconstruction. And I would remove force fields, as they are essentially a very slightly modified Stasis Field/Disruption Web. The number of new mechanics between the races is not nearly as imbalanced as they are being portrayed. The Terran don't have any flashy things like being able to teleport, but as I am sure you'd agree, it would not fit with the established fiction.

While I agree that the slowing beam does not seem to fit with the Terran playstyle, I have to say that it doesn't feel Protoss or Zerg either, it doesn't feel StarCraft, but that's beside the point. I can't agree that moving abilities between races is a bad idea, in fact, it's been done before, in front of your face! Maybe you're caught up in the visual appearance of abilities, because outside the fiction behind an ability, they can be interchanged freely without breaking the game, assuming it is balanced to accommodate the change. I mean, what's the difference between Dark Swarm and Disruption Web that makes one so perfect for the Zerg and the other so great for the Protoss? Explain the difference, mechanically, between the Siege Tank's mode shift to the Lurker's burrow? Plague and Irradiate? When you start looking past the graphics, sounds and strong associations you've built over the years, you'll see that any mechanic can be justified for any race.

--
While not part of my current argument, playtesting is a solidly fundamental requirement for a major game to be successful. It is impossible for a complex game to be good without it being played and adjusted like crazy. Playtesting usually involves some testers that are involved from the start (they're the ones that are going to start coming up with the deeper strategies) and more and more are brought in to get an impression of what a "new" player sees the game like, then those new players become experienced. By the time beta hits, there are quite a lot of people with quite a lot of experience playing the game, and of course, beta is just a wider set of playtests, and these will catch an even greater proportion of the bugs. If done properly, the game will ship with only a few imperfections that will get patched over relatively quickly.

 

I was actually never OK with the thor, and I still think that it's a big mistake. Not just because it doesn't suit the Terran, but because from the looks of it, Blizzard still doesn't even know what to do with it. Sure, early on it might have been a cool idea, but it sure looks like a fat siege tank at the moment. Once Blizzard devs themselves have a clear idea of what the thor is supposed to be, they can sell it to the fans. Same thing with the cobra, but much more so.

I'm not convinced in the slightest that what we have up to this point is the result of Blizzard intentionally switching up the racial identities. That doesn't really make sense when you look at the whole picture from the ground up. When Terran starts out with a 2-food melee unit as its basic infantry and has more melee units, or ones that function/behave like one(archon, lurker), than the Protoss, then we'd be looking at a possibility. As things are now, Blizzard ain't planned none of that as far as I can see.

So what really has been the direction of development? It's not that hard to spot, Blizzard has kept the basic SC1 ground work intact, then went and touched on the lacking areas of each of the races. Basically, they went in to fix problem areas they saw for each race, see a need fill a need if you will.

Protoss was the only race in SC1 that didn't have a high mobility hit-&-run base raiding unit, mainly because the scout was inadequate. They fixed that up by giving Protoss the stalker. They also merged the inadequate(and thus, never used) scout with the corsair and ended up with the 2-in-1 phoenix, but they put an interesting spin on the corsair's AA splash attack and made it into a spell. Zealots were also given the charge ability to address the issue of zealots being not very useful toward late-game.

Some people see warp-in as a boost in the mobility department, but it's actually a fix for Protoss's lack of flexibility. Protoss was always well endowed in the area of fancy tech and gimmicks, and as an overall mobility option recall was still better than warp-in. However, when Protoss needs some gateway units in a hurry, such as bouncing back from a failed assault or defending a remote expo in a pinch or squeezing out a few extra units for a timing rush, warp-in provides Protoss players with that extra bit of flexibility that they never had.

For Terran, a huge lack of overall mobility and flexibility was a big issue. Mobility especially, as Terran was supposedly labelled as the "mobile race" on paper. Speed boost to building lift-off, reapers(at tier 1), and vikings(at tier 2) are all answers to Terran's mobility issue. The universal addon system adds macro flexibility to Terran's fundamental tech structure. Salvage is another way to add a little flexibility. The planetary fortress helps to ease Terran's of having to tie up their units to man static defenses to protect their base and expos. Then there are other little things like scrapping the firebat, yamato/plasma option to make the BC more appealing, and the marine shield upgrade(small HP boost IMO to help marines last into late-game but also partly to compensate the axe on firebat).

Obviously that couldn't have been all that Blizzard devs have done, there are undoubtedly design features that are products of brainstorming for ideas heavy on "coolness." The thor and cobra are examples of this, ones that evidence poor results when throwing in random cool ideas without considering a race's traits and needs. Super unit mothership was a great idea that dripped with coolness and even went pretty well with the Protoss, but of course, they killed that off without even trying much to balance it.

What was so great about StarCraft was how vastly different each race was. In SC, each race's tech structure was different and unique, and there were always exceptions instead of neatly mirrored counterparts. Only Terran started out with a ranged basic infantry unit, Zerg had no ranged siege ground unit(which also were power drop options, which Zerg didn't have), Zerg had no ranged siege until guardian which wasn't even a capital ship like P/T, Zerg was the oddball in the air balance model, only Terran could heal/repair(don't even say shield battery), and a million other examples. SC was never about matching/countering unit for unit at equal tech levels. The three races were strongly different yet it somehow all came together to balance each other out.

The distinct flavor of each race is something that is much more important than random ultra cool ideas IMO. Most of what they've done looks pretty good at the moment considering it's still only alpha. However, unless Blizzard is consciously flipping the two sides of Protoss and Terran completely, which they evidently are not doing, any effort made to close the gap between them and pull each race toward the other direction will only serve to water down the races' distinctiveness and make them more similar. You just don't make "completely different" by making them more similar, it just doesn't work.

When they shift the slowing ability around, it only looks like they're just messing with things randomly without a clear direction, focus, or design goals. It's obvious the cobra started as a cool but bad idea, they didn't know what to do with it, then just gave it the slowing ability. IMO if the slowing ability is in the game at all, it at least fits in best with how Terran plays. But it really looks like they are trying to find a way to somehow fit the ability into the game instead of trying to find out what's best for each race or unit. I guess the cobra is at least not any worse than what it was before.

The point of all this? They need to wake up and realize a lot of design decisions up until this point either had no clear direction or a correct focus. The biggest thing always have been and still should be about the strongly distinct racial identities of the three races. Blizzard can by all means completely rip everything out of the ground and rewrite everything, but since that's not what they're doing, they need to get back on the right track. They either need to have the balls and dedication to completely reassign brand new identities to each race, or they shouldn't even touch that at all. Who are they kidding thinking they can come out on top with a worthy sequel preserving to feel and key essence of SC1 half-assing it aimlessly? I can accept new, I can accept change, I can even accept complete redesign from the ground up if it's done well, but I can't accept lukewarm half-assed-ness. I think many fans will feel me on that one.

 

I would agree with you if I felt there was sufficient evidence to support a claim that they're just wandering with units, but I get the impression that we only get a small proportion of the changes they make. Inter-unit interactions cannot be balanced on paper, no matter how good you are, there are just too many variables. Whenever they want to make something work, they have to beat it out by coming up with a workable idea and messing with it. I mean, the slow ability, now on the Cobra, is not bad... it's actually useful for slicing up retreating enemies, but it's boring. At least, it was boring in the form that it was in. Maybe Blizzard picked up on this, and they're trying to make an interesting mechanic into a fun one. We just don't know.

 

That is a scary thought. Don't worry though, Blizzard will do what's right in the end.

 

Lack of direction? Unfocussed? Yes exactly, but I would be worried if it was not like that at this point of development. They need to try silly ideas to see if they really are silly, surprisingly cool or lead to a good idea. Blizzard is prone to adding hard to balance features, they know that themselves (sry can´t find that comment but it WAS blue!) yet it somehow works out.

They are the kings of balance not by design but by support/after sales development - the last Diablo 2 patch completely changed the skill system. Maybe it was a mistake by them to announce SC2 so early, since I am shure that they will revamp it heavily compared to now - hell compare it to the state at announcement!

 

Just because the developers have worked on WC3 doesn't mean it's all they know how to do. They will likely adapt, seeing as how they all work on Blizzard and don't have the final say.
Also, the races (four races) in WC3 are DRASTICALLY different. Whats all this about them being the same?

Lets quickly examine the basic infantry for all races, I feel this demonstrates the difference well enough:
Human:
Footman
Cost- 135g
Food- 2
Hp- 420
Attack- 12.5 avg
Abilities- Armor and Attack upgrade as well as Defend

Orc:
Grunt
Cost- 200g
Food- 3
Hp- 700
Attack- 17 avg
Abilities- Upgrade plus Berserker strength which adds 100 hp and 3 attack. Also pillage

Nigh Elf;
Archer
Cost- 130g 10w
Food- 2
Hp- 245
Attack- 17 avg (50 range)
Abilities- Range and damage upgrades plus ability to ride hippogryphs and shadowmeld, as well as night only regeneration.

As for the Undead, I don't even know what their basic infantry is, the Goul? Its gathers lumber and eats other units to regenerate health.
They summon, like Protoss, the Nigh Elf units are consumed like Zerg, the Humans can task as many workers on to one building as they want, and the Orc just build buildings.

I don't see how that are similar.
I think Blizzard has done a fantastic job of constantly (with the exception on WC2) keeping all races unique.
Yes, they all have a 'town center, great hall...etc...' which governs the tier, but aside from this I feel the races are quite balanced and, more importantly, different.

 

thor is terran. it is the future after all. you dont want mediocre mechs like the goliath lorewise in sc2. check out supreme commander. x=

 

I think it is still way way too early to worry about balance in the game. the game is still in development, not in testing. numbers is definitely the last thing the developers will worry about, and therefore the last we should worry about. artistic direction and new gameplay concepts are so much more important at this stage of the game, balance is a very distant third.

that said, the game should be balanced like the original: protoss have the powerful units, zerg have the numbers, and terran somewhere in between.

but more importantly at this stage is the look and feel of the game. i think its more effective to spend our time bringing up the gritty look of dead marines splattered on the walls of installation maps and medics exploding in a pool of blood. remember when quake was the standard of video game violence? we cant have starcraft 2 perpetuate a trend of wussing out in PC games can we? : P

secondly, we need to have new ideas thrown in. the phase prism technology, reapers with their jetpacks and the blink ability on the protoss side are enough to make me think blizzard is thinking on the right lines in this respect.

the numbers wont even begin to be important until beta testing, and will be tweaked more even after release, so as a part of the development team lets stay focused on whats important in the early stages.