Units that sucked!

really......!?
and pvz toss + DA = zerg "holyshizbbqhax"

(unless of course if z = savior then lol protoss would have some trouble saying HAH)

EDIT: unless p = bisu. gg savior bisu owns u in everyway ^_^

 

i think the unit that sucked most and needs to be redone is the zerg larva lol :thumbup:
while its pretty essential it cant be used for anything else than mutating and you always had to wait for your hq to pop new ones
there should be at least a new building that pops larvas more quickly so you dont have to build 4 hqs or make them fly...

 

Nice one thitian! Though making a building almost exclusively to produce larva at a faster rate would throw off the balance of gameplay. Look at how long Protoss takes already to make something decent and the fact that Terrans need to really mix it up to be effective. But since you went there, I guess I would have to say that the Zerg Egg would also be quite useless... There it is... evolving something but not attacking?! HOW DARE THAT EGG NOT ATTACK!

 

At least the egg has like 20 armor. It would suck it it had none and just got attacked and killed in seconds. Now why can't they put the egg armor on a unit like the zergling or hydralisk. Have one of those with a bunch of eggs on it and ridiculous armor.

 

yeah so do the larvae...you can shoot and shoot and shoot and they stay alive. then they pop 8)

 

Sorry I gotta tell it like it is.

That's the funny thing about DAs, all of their abilities are very potent, yet when you look at the grand picture, DAs suck ass. They don't suck directly, but it's the time/tech/resource req that makes them suck. To not suck, you gotta be built first, not to mention upgrades.

Maelstrom works wonders for storming, but Zerg ground units already go into the game expecting to eat some storms anyway. It would be nice to get that combo on more costly units like mutas, even better cuz they stack. But too bad you won't have maelstrom+storm combo ready when mutas are picking holes in your base. DAs are cool, but they definitely suck.

Eggs and larvae have 10 armor btw. But yea, eggs and larvae rock.

 

Fo shizzle! 8)

A Terran Unit That Sucked:

• Valkyrie

The Terran Valkyrie, is it a useful addition to the Terran arsenal or is it the crippled brainchild of Terran developers? [i}"Valkyries are heavily armored, and can take substantial punishment from enemy fire before they suffer any core system failures." -- Battle.Net Excerpt[/i] The Valkyries are able to put swarms of Mutalisk to shame with relatively little effort, however I am sure you have encountered this scenario:

LIKELY SCENARIO: FFA on an Island Hop Map
You control a fleet of Valkyries on a map that contains many cliffs and requires aerial superiority. You seem to have control of the skies until all your enemies decide to turtle in their bases, content with what ground units they have and the impressive plan in their heads.

Suddenly there are squadrons of Battlecruisers, fleets of Carriers and scouts, swarms of Mutalisk all appearing out of nowhere. The Valkyries rush in and you signal your fighters to take action but get nothing but the deadly stares of your units. The Valkyries are not firing?! WHY?! HAVE THEY RAN OUT OF MISSILES?! No, there are just way too many sprites/units on the map and the Valkyrie becomes a flying coffin.

Don't get me wrong though, Valkyries have some really useful applications and can really turn the tide of an air war. I like Valkyries but I hate it when they can not return fire.

 

1) if it has useful applications it is not a unit that sucks so the rest of your argument is flawed.
2) You shouldn't have let them stay in their base making massive fleets of carriers or battlecruisers
3) I've never encountered the problem with there being too many sprites on the map in any real game.

 

I've had Valkryes stall before... But that's only in Single Player.
Generally they suck...because they dont kill, they fight by attrition... Which doesnt really work out in SC.

 

1. I'm just saying that the Valkyrie sucked in general. If what I said made my post "flawed" then I think this topic should not exist, because all units can have useful applications but no person really uses the said units extensively to even make a real difference. Show me some evidence that people use Valkyries constantly aside from Campaigns.
2. What if your attacks on their base fail? What if they defend their belongings to the teeth?
3. Have you played an 8 player island map? Also this usually happens a lot on money maps.

 

Valkyries sucked like hell.

 

Um... valks kill a lot. They DONT kill carriers and battlecruisers because those units have high armor. They were also never meant to kill those two units.

1. I've seen valks used a lot, especially against zerg players
2. Then you should assume they are going BCs if terran and carriers if protoss and not get valks because they are not meant to take on those two units. And if you fail to destroy their base you shouldn't just turtle up yourself or keep getting the same units. The least you could do is see what they are getting.
3. Money maps aren't real games. Primeval Islands is the biggest island map and I've played on it quite a few times and never encountered that problem.

 

You use valks against Zerg cuz there is nothing else to use them on. This is from Blizzard:

"Air Balance Model
The Support Air Units (Corsair, Valkyrie, Devourer) do very well versus the Tactical Air Units of the other species (Scout, Wraith, Mutalisk). The new units in Brood War are intended to be support units, meaning that you cannot win the game with them. Capital Ships (Battlecruiser, Carrier) are equipped to deal with these Supporting Air Units in deadly fashion. The key to retaining air superiority is to be the player with the most balanced air force."

Now I know some of the strats and stuff Blizz puts on b.net is crap, but it's pretty accurate more or less in this case so I'm quoting it. I think they changed a lot of the content over the years based on pro players though. I could've sworn it was way more stupid years ago.

Anyway, just as Blizz puts it, valks were made to kill scouts, wraiths, and mutas. Since you won't see scouts and you're Terran, that just leaves mutas for the most part. Zerg's also got the neighborhood pass around "kick me" sandbag known as ovies, so that's another plus. But you don't necessarily gotta to have valks for that job, most air can get that done pretty well.

So you're basically throwing down 250 minerals 125 gas and 3!!! supply for something that's mainly used to fight one unit in the entire game, mutas. Valks certainly have great AA, but that's it, nothing else. Other than ovies, no one is required to even get in the air at all, and Zerg players already know to guard ovies from hunts, that's worse than how ultras have it.

Other than AA, which is in itself already useless against most things in the game by default, valks don't bring anything else to the table. No ground attack, no cloak, no yamato, no web, nothing. Valks are way too specialized, wraiths are much more versatile and just generally more useful.

Sure, you see valks on island maps. But that's because well, they're island maps. All matter of air crawl out of the wood works on island maps, and a use for AA is guaranteed. In most other situations, valks are a liability.

I'm glad that we're gradually moving onto discuss other units that sucked in this thread. I was starting to feel lazy about doing whole seperate Toss and Terran segments. So yea, valks sucked like hell.

 

I am glad someone else sees the suck that are valkyries. Thank you. On another note, I think this topic is a healthy one, as we are getting POVs from every one and there is nothing better than debate.

 

Well of course they can't win a game because they can't destroy buildings as they attack air only. The thing with valks is that it is more cost effective to get them rather than wraiths when the enemy does get a bunch of air units. So, they don't suck because they have a use. Just because you won't use them in every game doesn't mean they suck.

 

I must say, to however far a degree of suckage Valkyries are, they still fill a niche. Some units get used more than others. Period. That's the whole thing with cost, tech and strategy. But niche units like a Valkyrie can win you battles, albeit only when used effectively.
I myself would hate to see niche units go. Late game strats are the most satisfying.

 

Having a use doesn't equate to not sucking. Scouts, DAs, ultras, queens, etc. all had a use but they still sucked.

Valks are good against mass swarms of air, but armor upgrades greatly diminish the effectiveness of their splash damage, just as corsairs and mutas. The only one that could still be just as effective against armor up'd air is muta. Someone who plan on using a lot of air would know to get armor upgrades first. That's not to say valks can't AA after armor ups, they still can. But getting pure AA that can't do a damn thing otherwise is still a liability that can suck if your opponents switched to ground.

Compare valks to using wraiths and irradiate vs muta swarms. Even after you win air superiority, you now have a bunch flying school buses on your hands that tie up food that have limited further usage. Outside of island maps, it can be a very bad thing.

Valks are just another unit that's "really good but sucked like hell."

 

Well I liked having a few for support against zerg.

 

Valkyrie and Wraith are both crap. Valkyrie just doesn't do enough damage for my taste and wraiths are just too weak on ground. It would be nice if they at least had a kamakaze feature

 

Focus fire about 12 cloaked wraiths and you rape heavy air like carriers and battlecruisers.
Valks slaughter massed air except for battlecruisers and carriers because they can't punch through their armor. Valks have 8 rockets each one doing 6-9 damage depending on upgrades you have. The base damage of 6 means that it deals a total of 48 damage. At full attack upgrade it deals 72 damage. That is a lot of damage for starcraft.