Units that sucked!

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

:stupid: is an understatement

btw
corsair
ensnare

and the corsair attacked really really fast and rocked to mass
the sair also had disruption web with prevented any unit that was in its radius from attacking

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

Lol he was being sarcastic. Anyways, corsairs were friggin awesome. I think and hope the carrier is gone. Now it just doesn't have a defined role

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

I found the zealot, not much use in the original starcraft and starcraft broodwar games, but obviously blizzard still feels that the protoss need a starting combat unit, i would really love a unit at the beginning that offers peace.. Not war!

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

I don't want the Carriers gone, they're great! how can you take out such a good unit? for me i would take out the Scouts, Nuff said

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

DISAGREE! the Corsirs were the freaking bomb. quit bein a hater! the damn scout needs to never come back.

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

Scouts were pretty useless, unless you had numbers, and seeing as how they cost so much, you rarely did. At 275/125, why would you use them? They had great anti-air, but still. Hydras destroyed them for much cheaper, Goliaths raped them, still cheaper, and Dragoons were decent against them.

Bah.

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

well, it is accepted among protoss players that the only time to use scouts is if your opponent is massing carriers or battle cruisers. The reason for this is because in numbers they very seriously tear up bcs and carriers and expensive as they are they still cost less than a carrier or battle cruiser thus causing the enemy more damage.

That said, I still don't mass scouts I find other ways but I will admit it works quite well if they are upgraded.

 

Re: Protoss Units that could be gone?

Well, yeah, for sure they're great against capital ships, at 28 Air Damage per pop, and a quick fireing time at that, they're good in those situations, but otherwise, they weren't a great investment.

 

i'm glad the freaking phenix is replacing the scout. now that the scout will never return its cool look will be missed. think its look should of been in sc2 and the look of the phenix should of been in sc1.

 

Re: Units That could Be Gone

i think that all units except the zergling, hydralisk, and mutalisk are all fair game to be removed.
the overlord will probably stick around : P

personally i want to see a lot of new units, so i think only the most loved units should stay.
devourer and ultralisk definitely have to go IMO. queen defiler and scourge are all good to be replaced. guardian was pretty unique to zerg, but still could be changed.

 

Re: Units That could Be Gone

I just want some of the concepts, like acidic spores and the lurker's attack, to stay. Everything else can go, cept maybe lings.

 

Re: Units That could Be Gone

the defiler

 

Re: Units That could Be Gone

To the Devourer-haters: The Devourer is an absolute beast. Good players spot Devourers and start reconsidering using air. Devourers have the double effect of increasing the rate at which enemies die and decreasing the rate at which you lose units. A single Mutalisk, attacking three units covered in Acid Spore will do more damage in one shot than a Scout, and Mutalisks are nearly a third the Scout's cost! Acid spore completely negates the advantage of the Corsair's rapid-fire attack, and makes it so that fighting other Mutalisks is a complete bloodbath. Try it some time: 12 Mutas vs 10 Mutas and a Devourer. The carnage is just crazy! In a game with allies, Protoss or Terran, pair Devourers with Valks or Cors, the rapid-fire-high-yield-splash-damage will take out full Carrier fleets with few casualties.

If you think of the Devourer as a useless unit, I am sorry, but you are missing something huge.

 

wow Neon. Why are u compairing Anything in the zerg air to a scout? I wouldn't even bother building agenst zerg due to my fear of Scourges. tell me how you plan to counter Dark Archons when ur air starts stacking and the enemy only massed Corsair with an Archon?? the devourer is a slow attacker but what happens when they dont get to attack at all?

 

The Scout's Anti-Matter Missiles do 28 damage. A single, unupgraded Mutalisk, attacking one 0-base-armor unit, covered with 9 acid spores, allowed to splash its Glave Wurm to two similarly spored auxillary targets, will do 38 damage. Read that again: 38 damage. I was being misleading comparing it to a Scout; it would be quite a bit scarier than a Scout.
A Scourge deals 110 damage in one shot, if it makes it to its target (and most Scourge don't) and never gets to attack again. That lone Mutalisk will have dealt more damage than a Scourge in 3 shots, and it will probably be able to keep going if it is in a pack of Mutalisks. This is something that should be feared.

Dark Archons can only pull off two Maelstroms with their energy upgrade. A good player will not stack their units when facing Corsairs, certainly not Dark Archons, they will scatter them. The Devourer's Acid Spores will quickly make the Corsairs into flying kittens when their once-rapid flood of attacks slows to a trickle.

As for the Devourer's slow attack not hitting, the Devourer has a longer attack range than the Corsair, it won't happen: the Devourer(s) will get shots off, and the Mutalisks they are supporting, appropriatly scattered, will proceed to finish the job. If there are 9 Devourers in the group, one shot is all they need. They will be able to kill two Corsairs with that first volley alone along with maxing out their Acid Spores. Even if each Devourer is killed in that first instant (yeah right, you would need something like 20 Corsairs to kill a clustered [and they wouldn't be] group of Devourers in one shot, even if the Devourers have no armor upgrades) the Spores will be out, and the Corsairs will have been sentenced to a defenseless death to the units they were designed to kill. This is how powerful Devourers are.

 

I smell a power up.

Really, that was what I was thiking, but you put it much better than I could have. Dev's were great, when used properly.

 

Its nice to see you stick by the devour after all of its under useage and others peoples dislike for the unit. After you add in all the technical factors into this unit players will continue to dislike it. You know what this unit is possible of but at the end of the day if your gaming skills are not up to the technicalities of the game it dosent matter if that units sole purpose is to counter another you'll still lose. Many players will find a way past devourers. If a good player is faced with a unit that has a better chance of beating it and still manages to over come this it shows skills. A lot of players misuse devours and end up losing because of it, in time they come to lose trust in that unit and dislike it. From all i can see a lot of people have lost using devours and end up hating the unit i guess. I dont play zerg so either way it dosent matter to (me) when i play against zerg air and devourers are added into the mix i find away around them or through them. The concept of the devourer has not won that (Lemme use This unit) factor. I feel its not ganna make it into sc2 because of its under use and even then i dont see it beating me. but I'm sure we will see them in the Sc2 editor

 

Even if what you said is true, that doesn't mean the unit sucks. It means the people using it do. It likely won't make the next game, but still, it's a very useful unit, despite that.

 

useful too who?? not me i dont play zerg. i have not played more then 10 players that ended up having to make devourers to win so i'll say for the most part the time i have seen this unit played it has failed. Its mechanincs have not made me fear this unit and any unit i dont fear is a unit that wont beat me.

 

I wasn't pushing for people to like the unit. People were marking it as a useless unit and felt a need to change that impression. It doesn't bother me that people will dislike a unit because they can't use it, it's honesty and practicality. I just can't stand when people reject something claiming that it isn't good enough for them in order to hide the fact that they can't handle it.

In the case of the Devourer, I can't even buy that. It's not like the Vulture, where solid use of the unit requires intense speed and skill: all you have to know is that it is a support unit, like it says in the manual, or on the box. Treat it as support to Mutalisks and you don't even have to know why it works so well. The secret to using the unit well is no secret at all, but people can't get over the thing's fire rate, they can't grasp the fact that this is one of those units that actually does work better in combination. I hear "the Devourer sucks" and to me it sounds like somene saying "the Medic sucks." Well yeah, of course it sucks, because you're trying to mass it and send it to the enemy base alone! Someone said earlier that Devourers made great meat shields. Massed Medics make great meat shields too, that must be what they're for, right?

Somewhere along the line, the combination "Marine-Medic" became common knowledge, while "Mutalisk-Devourer" was never picked up. It proobably has to do with the fact that this combination is a late-game combination. It probably has to do with the fact that people assume that the upgraded version of a unit is preferable across the board to the unupgraded version. It probably has to do with the fact that "Mutalisk-Devourer" has too many syllables and too little alliteration to be easily memorized. Whatever it is, even though the relationship was spelled out in the game's manual, it never picked up. It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Also, I never said I had a strong feeling it would return to SC2. Look at the Terran and Protoss: between the two of them they've retained 2 air units per race. If it follows the same pattern for the Zerg, I imagine only the Mutalisk and Overlord will return. I would not be surprised at all to see two new Mutalisk morphs, a new caster, and a new strategic support unit.

i2new: We get it, you don't play Zerg. Nobody's pushing for you to favor the unit; you don't need to remind us that you never intend to build the thing. The goal here is to get you to appreciate the unit. The reason you havn't seen a lot of decisive Devourer use can stem from many sources. Here are a couple of possibilities: Perhaps you play players that don't understand the unit's strengths? If they win, it is because they've managed to pull off a stronger economy. Perhaps you don't rely on massed air? In this case they would never need heavy air support.

A unit doesn't have to be a "you must use this" unit in order to be useful. It just has to be better then the alternatives in a wide enough range of situations.