TIER 2 system for base defenses.. yes upgrades. or attributes for base defenses.

They already are useful, you just have to use them right. Theoretically, any unit can be useful in this game.

 

I don find killing workers cheap... I don't think its cheap at all! I do it all the time, and other people do it also...

 

Zeratul11 defences are not meant to keep ur base safe but to buy time so that ur units can have the advantage to either counter rush or w/e. If u trully luv defence like paragon said play terran and if u want pure defence play tower build in custom game

 

tower build.. hahah. nice one.

my only point is that i think more improve defense(upgrades) will create more strategy for the game. like attacking by what type of units or where... also this will make the TIER 3 UNITS USEFUL. ^^

 

Kenshin,

If you have to sacrifice a substancial enough amount of resources to upgrade your defences you will lose out on expansions and army size in early game; it's a big enough trade-off that good players will only do it in longer games, or strategically in very few spots.

 

If defenses become too good they will remove strategic depht as you wouldn´t need units to defend against attacks. You could use all your supply using stuff to attack your enemy and wouldn´t have to worry that he might counterattack. That holds true untill your enemy nondefensive units < your static defenses + your defensive units. As you notice it is quite hard to counterattack, too strong defenses will remove that comeback possibility completely.

Even if you argue it is "just" Tier2 remember that your enemy will need most of his army to defend his own base. The fact that you attack (not harrass) means you already have the advantage. Attacking should leave your own defenses lacking imho to open up counterattack and comeback possiblities.

Counterattacks are just a faction of a "proper" attack army by definition. If defenses are too strong they would remove that dynamic.

What exactly should Tier 2 defenses accomplish? Seal Mineral lines, removing harras strategies? Do we want that?

 

Re: TIER 2 system for base defenses.. yes upgrades. or attributes for base defen

ha? defense will not remove strategies ofcourse. a good defense will add up more strategy on how you attack and when to attack, what kind of units to attack, and creates different outcome like you might lose defending and turtling up, or maybe you can win by defending well then counter attack your unit defleted enemies. something like that. since when did defense become a hindrance to more strategy?

seal mineral lines? ofcourse. you have to defend it, its your base.

the thing here is you either go for a defensive move, offensive, or something in between for your battle tactics to win games.

even strong defense are still vulnerable, siege units can take them out units. and you still need back up from your units.


AND

STRONG DEFENSE = hard to crack with basic tier 1 and 2 units.

STRONG DEFENSE = needs TIER 3 units to attack it. (THOR, BC,COLOSSUS, mothershuip, carrier, etc.)

i think thats the only way these units will become useful in starcraft 2. why build thor if your enemies have only mediocre defense. vikings and banshee etc can take them out.

 

Well in that case these "uberdefenses" should take supply to prevent you from relying entirely on them. That way a strong defense would actually limit your offensive potential, thats what I want.

 

No, because any good player will not rely solely on base defenses to defend their base. They will almost all the time have some strong units, such as siege tanks or maybe even Thors defending their base. That's why you need the strong units.

The problem is that a lot of the players don't have mediocre defense. You call defenses mediocre because a few of them can't hold off an army on their own. That's not what they were meant for. They were meant to just hold off the enemy until reinforcements arrive.

 

zeratul, yes, static defences are mediocre. they are good at tier 1, but diminish in the higher levels. but that doesnt mean that your defences have to be mediocre.
i most cases of higher tiers, [Your Static Defences] < [Their Army] in this situation, they can sweep thru your base. This isnt the case though, they dont always just blow through your defences. Why? because if [Your Army] = [Their Army], or even if [Your Army] < [Their Army], you will still win when its [Your Army] + [Your Static Defences] vs. [Their Army].
The Static stuff isnt to do your job for you, its to prevent losses in your army or deter raids when placed near mineral lines.

 

Exactly burkid. Also never forget that "Tiers" are a archaic concept, they don´t mean that "higher" units are automatically stronger just that they come later (wich necessarily mkes them good against the stuff that came earlier).
If your defenses are good enough you would just wait your enemy out since you will beat him at your base... not at his since you invested into static defenses. If he did the same it will become a test of patience, and in some cases of Internet cafe regulations.

 

Re: TIER 2 system for base defenses.. yes upgrades. or attributes for base defen

ok ok.

uhm.. units are more versatile now like i said cliff climbers, transformers, teleportation, hit and run bombardment etc. thats why they made the canons move, and terran have radar dome and planetary fortress. NOT enough for me =\

i just HOPE tier 3 units will be USE most the time in sc2.

 

We all hope that and better defenses might even accomplish that but they also would disort the game. You could also balance in Experience gaining Heroes but no one wants them in SC2. But simply from general "gameflow" should it be anything like SC endgameunits will appear late into the game.
Strong defenses would help in a way as they would prevent the game from ending until then... even if the game is already decided. Matches would be "artificially long" its kinda as if you would start with only 1 Peon. Matches would be longer but boring in the beginning. I´m afraid that Tier 2 Defenses would make them boring in the end.