Thor

people theorycraft too much, all the complaining about thor with lift-off is like saying, prior to broodwar, "omg if you gave DA the ability to mind control any unit, not only does it mean a instant kill for the enemy, it also gives you that unit free, in the heat of the battle! imagine if you had 10 DA's you could mind control 10 bc's or carrier's, that would be so OP!!" this is a classic line of argument, they use extreme/unlikely examples to justify their opposition, they don't consider all the factors involved and how likely the said scenario will actually happen in a real game

 

Lift off would not be op since it somehow could be balanced. That theoretically goes for everything. We also could add Hero units with experience but that won´t happen. OP or not isn´t the problem, that goes for Lift off, Salvage, Cliff walkers/jumpers, etc...

A terran can have his fun with the Thor and then get all their money back because otherwise he would have to blow it up, or leave behind. Blizzard currently experiments with some unconventional ideas for RTS, like full return Salvage or Air and Ground vulnerable colossuses or the idea of cliff walkers/jumpers.
To make the Field building of the Thor a actuall gameplay element and not a gimmick it actually needs to be a part of the units advantages and/or disatvantages. With Lift off you´d build it in your base without risk and fly it over to the enemy.
Having problems with the Terrain is a core characteristic of the Thor and one reason it is build by a SCV. Such a significant disatvantage would also warrant a advantage, like being salvagable. If Blizzard kept cool ideas because they are cool we would still have the Starport.

Lift off also doesn´t fit the Thor because one of it´s defining characterisitcs is that id DOESN´T fly. It would be too similar to the BC otherwise.

 

the thor is like a building, it's even built by an scv, terran buildings fly.

too similar to bc? it can't even attack when flying, and i'd like to see a bc land on the ground, walk around for a bit, and bombard some buildings

 

I officially give up on this argument. I see a very few people who actually disagree with the idea, just like it was two weeks ago, and I don't see any minds being changed.

The Thor will not be imbalanced and/or cheapened by being lifted off and it will not be similar to the Battlecruiser. Reasons for this have been stated multiple times in this thread without productive counter-arguments.

 

Right new discussion.

So do you think the Thor has/should have a minimum range like the siege tank?

 

I certainly dont. The Thor is a assault unit and should´nt get owned just because a few zerglings got too close to it.

 

Absolutely. Imagine Zerglings clawing at it from the front, how would it shoot right in front of itself between its 'arms'? I say make it totally useless for melee combat. It would balance things, because it can attack air and has siege mode with siege range and a sh*tload of hitpoints.

 

I myself can imagine those cannons being able to point at the Thor's feet and with the damage it does it needs some weakness. It is similar to how the tank has a minimum range. Really though just like with tanks if you loses all your marines and enemies get too close you already lost the battle anyway

 

it shouldn't have minimum range because unlike the tank it can't even escape since it turns so slowly. the tank only had minimum range in siege mode meaning if zerglings got close it could unsiege and get away/return fire. the thor can't even get rid of its minimum range if it had one, so without support even one zergling that got close would spell the end of the thor (albeit would take a while)

 

The Thor should require a deal of support units to counter its power. As I have said if you have lost all of the marines at the Thor's feet you have probably lost the battle anyway. Besides the Thor's can always cover each other because they might not be able to fire at their own feet but they can fire at the others' feet

 

Well... if you think about it the minimum range wouldn't really do much good in the name of balancing the unit. It's basic attack is pretty weak as it is. It's not like it's going to be killing your entire Zergling battalion all by itself, all it does is 30 damage. So if it's unsupported it's going to die anyway.

Hence it already needs support in order to survive. Even the barrage won't really take out a large group of mobile units. Since it doesn't have a real AoE attack, it won't survive alone.

 

This forum has turned into a sad sad place. Some people's poor sense of logic is baffling. I can't believe the sheer amount of utter BS we got on just liftoff alone. And it's usually the same few people I see from thread to thread that likes to oppose other people's ideas with no good reason.

 

Liftoff Thor = Battlecruiser? *blinks* ... wow

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but minimum range? it does look like it would be difficult for the Thor to fire close to it's own body - but the very slow movement and turning I think are plenty of balance already for this unit. It's already possible for fast units to savage the Thor... then you throw in that there are a few units specifically designed for taking out large hp units, and the Thor has enough counters - I don't like the idea of adding yet another.... then the only thing NOT capable of tearing the Thor up would be large, light hitting units.... and how many of those are there?

 

yeah... the arguments gets stranger and stranger doesn't it? i wounder what they come up with next... could it be that the lift off for the thor is OP because if you fly in 100 thors at the same time then nothing would be able to stop them ??!

 

Lift off for the Thor is OP because if you fly in 100 Thors at the same time then nothing would be able to stop them!!!

 

lol nice one, someone who didn't read my post before yours might think you've gone nuts

 

I think it's ok for Thors to get trapped, they are walking tanks. Taking damage for weaker units is what they do. Liftoff would be moving out of the way and letting the enemy reach what's behind the Thor. And as for mobility, build it across the ocean or give it salvage skill. I would prefer it to giving the Thor a way to cross obstacles.

One of the uses I see for its huge size could be blocking splash damage that aims at him (he would be larger than the splash radius) and keep being repaired by a safe SCV behind him. Rather than running, I think it should be about staying and fighting. And lack of mobility ultimately obligates him to do so, reinforcing this characteristic.

Thor could be a good way to encourage SCVs to be on the field constantly repairing the units.

 

Please stop arguing about lift-off. It is obvious that noone is going that change their minds this is getting us nowhere so will you all please

SHUT UP ABOUT LIFT-OFF

 

orz. I must suck at English everyone misunderstood my point. Last word on Lift off from me: It isn´t OP, it is silly. But alas, lets lay the matter to rest.


If Thor gets minimum range or not on the main attack depends mainly how Zerg turn out. Currently the only melee unit the Thor would be concerned about is the DT, so it would be a minor problem. But there might be a Anti-Armor melee Zerg (Baneling?) so that would be a problem.

 

I think it shouldn't have a minimum range. As I stated (leaving the lift-off part aside) to believe the role of the Thor is mainly tanking, it should be made able to hold off masses of melee units with their size. And for that it should target units in close range.

That's what I came up with after a long time of thinking, trying to figure the difference of a BC w/ plasma array and a hypothetical flying-Thor (not talking about lift-off). To me, the difference in roles that Thor and BCs have is their ability to occupy space and be a wall to ground units. So I draw everything else from this point.