Thor

@nate: exactly... there's mobile and there's "mobile"

not allowing the thor to get off an island at all is stupid, allowing the thor to fly like air units is also stupid. sure allowing the thor to fly slowly makes it "mobile" but you can't really say its mobile when used in the context of strategic planning.

 

ok, lift off might be balanced, but it'll depend largely on how powerful the bombardment is. if it can destroy buildings in seconds, then it'll be hardly fair, because even if you do take out most of the hp before it lands, it'll wreck havoc after it lands.

 

But hillzagold, that's unlikely - given that the Thor would have to transform from Liftoff Mode back to normal, and then it would have to transform into Artillery mode.... with the time spent chugging thru the skies helplessly also, ANY halfway competent player should be able to defend against such an attack.

 

but even if it has just 100 hp left when it starts to land, it would still do major damage. and what if the thor had an escort of predators?

 

So? What If? Each race has anti-air ground forces as well as anti-air air forces. Just think about what happened when you were trying to move a building in StarCraft 1 and the enemy attacked it with pretty much ANYTHING. The movement rate is so slow, that it's virtually impossible to escape that scenario - much less, forge thru it and land in the midst of the enemy base. Missile Turrets? Phase Cannons? They'd trash any building foolish enough to attempt violating their perimeter... and a Thor is weaker than a Building.

As stated, any player who cannot defend against a tier 3 building moving into his base, deserves to lose.

 

into the base? no, but it can move close enough to blow up a few buildings.

 

That's an expensive unit to be sacrificing... I doubt we would see any Thors floating around anywhere near the enemy. I suppose a player could get lucky and get in a nice salvo with it... but he'd be much more likely to lose his extremely expensive unit. Great risk deserves great rewards I suppose.

 

That's like saying the liftoff for the Infested Command Center is imbalanced because it can technically land in your base and start pumping out infested terrans....

 

yeah, but it's unlikely that you could really do 900 damage to it before it landed, as well. if you destroy at least two buildings or a big cluster of units, it's a fair tradeoff

 

900 hp isn't that much to take out if you have units under it to prevent its landing...

 

and units under it isn't much if you have a few banshees to kill them off

 

Thor = stuck
Liftoff = unstuck

If the thor is accompanied by banshees, whatever takes place would be done and over with long before fatass lands.  Bombardment my ass, you'd be crazy if you think your thor's gonna have any energy at all when it lands if it can even land at all.  What do you think EMP and feedback are for?  Fireworks and kicks?

If you're assaulting the enemy's backdoor with a squad of banshees, why would you bring along a slowly floating box that can't do jack to help them out?  You're much better off keeping the element of surprise and go straight in with the banshees.  The thor would also be better used to beat down the enemy choke defense and kick down their front door so the rest of your ground army can move in for the kill.

Stop coming up with all these hypothetical concerns that don't even make sense.  I'm Zerg, I don't even have EMP or feedback, and I'm not worried one damn bit.  Why do you think I'm even arguing for liftoff when I'm Zerg?  Because having your expensive ass tier 3 fatass become stuck and completely useless due to a design flaw is utter stupidity.

 

The problem is you are NOT going to float your thor into the enemy's base, you are going to float it OUTSIDE the base, land it and do its barrage stuff. That's the problem with thor mobility. It MUST tradeoff mobility for its extreme damage. Infact, it is kinda like a siege tank that can move before deploying and the deploy time is quite short compared to siege tanks.

And even floating buildings aren't immediately threatening, only when they finish building the unit. But the thor, when it lands, is immediately able to smash down stuff. Can you see the difference?

 

if you don't notice a big fat thor slowly approaching your base then you are not scouting properly and you deserve to lose

 

It wouldn't be immediate as already pointed out. It has to change from Liftoff Mode, and then it would have to change into Artillery Mode. Those two changes together take almost as long as building an Infested Terran for instance.... which as pointed out, was not imbalanced... because no floating building is going to make it anywhere NEAR an enemy base.

If you have enough units to protect the Thor in transit, then you would've smashed the base anyway. The Thor doesn't offer ANY surprise attack benefit. A Siege Tank drop would do the same thing MUCH better, not to mention that Siege Tanks outrange the Thor.

 

you got the main point there nate, it's all about surprise, and the thor doesn't offer any even with left off.

another thing i want to says is people who are against the lift off are arguing as if the thor is a early 1st tier unit... it is not. it's late 3rd tier and by the time you can build it enemy will have all the units and spells at his disposal, to counter the thor. also dropping bases is a good strategy early to mid game, with the intention of disrupting the rather fragile economy during those periods of the game. dropping is not the main focus late game. your aim late game should be winning the key battles and out macro-ing your opponent

 

Thor's range is the same as a siege tanks.

 

no it doesn't. the siege tank already had more range than the thor and it's just been confirmed in q&a 16 that the tank's range has been further increased

 

They said they increased Siege Tank range.

And the dreaded Building Drop isn't going to surprise anybody anyway... I fail to see how the minimal possibility of floating a Thor, slowly..... oh, how slowly, around to the side or back of a base and blasting a few buildings before the expensive unit is itself destroyed, is better than: Sending the Thor at the main defense point, blasting a hole in those defenses and leading the rush into the enemy base.

#1 scenario - unlikely to work, causes slight to moderate damage, loses Thor
#2 scenario - almost guaranteed to work, causes moderate damage, Thor is uninjured

 

But what is the point of a slow Thor if that unit delays a attack because it moves so slow? The Reaver was useless without a shuttle, how fast is the Thor going to fly?

Also all units can be moved then, you would not attack with Thors alone.If the Process is slower than landing a SCV and Building the Thor right there it´s no point adding it.

Also the Lift off is a idea born to work on island maps - but I doubt Thors would see use on such maps even with Lift off. Islands usually have heavy AA defenses that SHOULD destroy a approaching Thor/Buiding. In that situation BCs with Yamato would work better as I see it right now.