Thor

no, refund amount is based of the hp percentage

 

We still DO want the Mothership to be a super-unit.

Some people want to have a game that is *gasp* different from the original!

I want new gameplay, and having a unit that is immobile doesn't fit that scheme.

 

I just don't see where all this opposition to the Thor being able to be transported like a building is originating.

They talk about how "huge" this unit is that it needs to be built outside the Barracks/Factory just like a BUILDING. Therefore I don't see why it can't use the same liftoff mechanic.

It's not like it's FLYING and SHOOTING. It's just floating. It will be EXTREMELY vulnerable in this form and, to me, is a solution to its limited mobility. It's not like you're going to be able to lift off and use this to attack someone's base.

Heck you could do JUST like a building and remove all it's armor when it floats, etc.

 

The Thor wont be transportable unless the collosus becomes transportable. if it was going to have jetpacks then it would be fairly uber, especially considering how fast terran buildings move now

 

no

Dont forsake balance just because you NEED something drastically new. Maybe there's a reason why super units were never in any other RTS (even then im' not so sure). It might be a campaign only super unit, and it'll still be good.

 

Because flying is a very strong advantage. Many powerfull weapons in SC and SC2 are balanced by only hitting ground, like the Siege Tank. Even with all the drawbacks you mentioned it would still enable the Thor to travel up/down ledges and across Islands.
Yet the Thor is designed for Frontal attacks, not raids. It would be like giving the Ultralisk burrow. Neat but it conflicts with it´s role.

 

It would be quite cool to let it be salvageable so you might as well make more infantry unit! it can be effective if you want to expand quickly

 

How does it conflict with its role? It can't fire while in the air, and its extremely slow. You're not going to be able to raid someone's base with it. Not unless you have a huge number of them. And you can expect to lose a lot.

It's like trying to land a Command Center in an opponent's base. Very hard to do. Plus, they wouldn't allow it to land on units, so your opponent can simply prevent you from landing.

Also, the Colossus is ALREADY transportable. It's quick and it can move up and down ledges with ease.

I think this would be an effective balance to the Thor so that it's a little bit more effective. It simply gives you the ability to move over terrain that it couldn't otherwise cross.

 

Please read the Mothership debate thread as I'm not going to reiterate all the points made on that thread when other people did such an awesome job. Remy's posts are especially poignant.

Reducing the Mothership's role is effectively eliminating either it or the Carrier as a unit, because their roles are simply going to overlap.

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=1588.0

Also, you have quite a few posts so you should have read the forum guidelines and know that you shouldn't unnecessarily quote the person above you.

 

That is exactly my problem with the idea. I don´t think the Thor should be able to cross every terrain, it is already quite similar to the Battlecruiser. It´s lack of mobility is it´s disatvantage, just like slow turning is.

The 250mm cannons are devastating wich is balanced by the difficulty to bring them into position. With the current design the Thor will have to take the best defended way into a base, even Siege Tanks are more mobile since they fit into Dropships.

But assuming it COULD fly what aspect of it would you remove? Make it even more expensive? Take away the 250mm? Reduce HP? It somehow sounds like you mean that the "grounding" of the Thor is an oversight and not a design desicon.

 

make it cost significant resources to research the flight.

 

Researching Flight would simply delay the problem not remove it. Once you DO invest the resources you have exactly the same problem.

 

Are you guys still under the impression that it can FIRE while flying?

Tell you what, take a Barracks in a regular SC1 game versus someone decent and try to land it in their base effectively. Very hard to do without it being noticed and killed.

It's simply not imbalanced. I don't see the problem.

The only possible disadvantage to this is that the Thors could technically make better use of terrain, i.e. get up on cliffs. But I really don't see why this is imbalanced.

 

mebbe you could have it fly, but when it lands, it has a cool down before it can move or shoot

 

hillzagold that is a stu*ehem* no so smart idea seriously you do not see buildings powerdown when they land now do you? then why should the Thor? also how will the thor be able to fly? no wing or hover and its mass is inequale in the back and front notice the little lean forward it does and as soon as the thing is in the air it's unequale mass balance and gravity pushes it forward and boom there goes the Thor and all the units around it.

 

That is exactly the problem. The Thor is already quite close to the BC, Yamato cannon is a usefull tool in Sieges to take out key units/structures. The Thor has better Statistics in trade for it´s limited mobility. In a 1on1 the Thor would beat the BC even though the Thor is cheaper.
What can the BC what the Thor can´t do? Fly.

 

@ Darth_Bane , I wouldn't exactly consider that a constructive post.

How do you explain the flight of Terran buildings, then? Seems to me their interplanetary thrusters do fine with buildings, and would do fine with a Thor.

@ Hillzagold , I just don't see how a unit that moves so slowly in the air and has no attack while in the air either can be a threat until it has landed some safe distance away from enemy forces. And as Hillzagold said, you could just have the Thor undergo a transformation before liftoff and after landing. Where there's a 5-10 second period where it has to reposition its arms and legs to walk again.

The only reason I even suggest this is because as of now the Thor is immobile. There is no practical way to use it on a map that isn't completely continuous aside from just building new ones. Disassembling them isn't really practical as it's not entirely fair to either player. The player disassembling it must lose minerals in order to balance the deconstruction, and the opposing player shouldn't have to contend with a change of forces (i.e. the other player has 10 Thors and then dismantles them and produces all Battleships).

Using the Colossus as a comparison doesn't really help because the Colossus is mobile. Just because it can't be picked up in a shuttle doesn't mean anything. It can still walk over cliffs, etc. So it's about as mobile as an air unit with the exception of water.

EDIT: @ Unentschieden , the Thor will NOT be able to fire while flying. In the Battlecruiser you are paying for a unit that can attack from anywhere on the map at all times. The Thor will still be extremely immobile. It just will be able to move from one safe zone to another safe zone across difficult terrain.

Bottom line: the Thor has to have SOME kind of mobility. It can't be stuck on one part of the map once it's built. So you either have to let it float, be able to break it down for a return of a percentage of minerals, or you have to let it break down into smaller units to be transported in dropships. No other way.

You could completely balance the Thor's liftoff ability by just making it slow. You can make it as slow as you want. I just want the function of mobility.

 

Well I would like it to be able to be salvaged. That would give it indirect mobility but keep its actuall field performance.

Flying would give it serious mobility, shooting or not doesn´t have anything to do with that. Flying would protect it from all units that can´t hit air. No you couldn´t drop it into an enemys base but that isn´t the problem. Flying wouldn´t make it a Battlecruiser copy but it would weaken the terrain as defense against it.

The Thor is designed to attack the strongest, best defended part of a base, the main/land entrance. Thats why it would be hard to balance if the Thor could also attack from the rear and even SC buildinglike slow floating would allow that. Thats what I meant when I posted flying would go against it´s design.

You could compare the Thor to a Medieval Siege Tower, build in front of a Sieged City to attack the Walls. You wouldn´t use them to attack the Harbor. (ok not optimal methapor but you know what I mean)

 

While I think that might be interesting I don't think the Thor should be salvageable. I think instead they should just find a solution to the lack of mobility.

I am betting the salvage will work like the undead's unsummon in WCIII where you start the process and you slowly get resources back but it can still be destroyed in the process. I a thinking it will also be like reverse construction and require the SCV to stay there halting the salvage process if the SCV is destroyed

 

quite the problem, how on earth could you possibly manage to fly something that's heavier on one side? oh i know, give it stronger thrusters on the heavy side!