The Thematic Imbalance of Starcraft

What fractional relationship?

 

Your chart there seems to be pointing out that light is made up of 3 different waves.

Red, Green, and Blue. Primary colors. For why else would they be using the Colors Red, Green, and Blue?

And it is the relationship, that is, distance two waves are from each other that dictates the color.

What your chart there seems to fail to represent is that each of those waves should be slowly changing their color shade individually, as represented by the ever changing shade of color below.

Get the picture?

 

You're reading the chart wrong.

 

No sir

 

http://www.nightlase.com.au/education/optics/light.htm

"This became known as 'Huygens' Principle'. Huygens theory was the successful theory of light wave motion in three dimensions"

 

Huygen's was not talking about dimensions in the way you are talking about them. Your reference couldn't be less relevant.

 

I want to do give one last example of the thematic uniqueness of the races.

100 minerals = 1 Zealot (Quality as there is 1 unit with an additional shield armor that regenerates faster then z regeneration.)

100 minerals = 2 Marines (Ability, ABLE to attack from not only a range, but a good range)

100 minerals = 4 zerglings (Quantity, more numbers means more damage)

The single zealot hits by 16 damage, while zerglings hit by 5, but remember, there are 4 zerglings which means 20 damage, and the zerglings attack faster. This perhaps explains why the zealot shield recharges faster then zerg life. Then terran have the range.

It would seem that zerg actually naturally have the most offensive power. Perhaps the reason for this is because zerg has the burden of sharing economy with their offense, and when offense is made, economy is lost.

But then... what good is having that higher offensive ability when you are not guaranteed hits from when the opponent attacks? All the opponent has to do is bluff attack zerg every time to cause zerg to make offense, which sets the zerg's economy back. Do the zerg really recover fast enough economically to deal with these bluffs? Is zerg's function unique enough?

There needs to be a consequence for these bluff attacks where the opponent attacks and just runs back to his base with out his units really costing any permanent consequences.

A zerg that does not expand does not have a chance. A zerg cannot place tech before expanding and put up a reasonable fight. Therefore, the zerglings do not have the speed upgrade which they should practically naturally have to guarantee that what ever zerg losses in economy from offensive bluff attacks by the opponent, the opponent at least losses the equivalent to that nearly guaranteed in offense.

 

I think the problem could be so simple that it's not even funny...

Something like, borrow not costing any gas because it is such a low level skill/ability.

Imagine borrow not costing gas, but maybe raising the mineral price slightly, if that's what needs to be done.

This would guarantee that what ever the zerg lose in economy from some kind of bluff attack, the opponent pays the opponent also pays the price for economically because now zerg either chases the opponent back to his base, or gets borrowed ling on the opponents expo to slow him down.

I mean... terran scv repair ability didn't cost them ANY money for them to research....

Why does borrow not only have to cost 100 minerals, but 100 gas?

 

maybe so people cant do this -> zerg rush workers, burrow when they are attacked/losing.
and pwn. or burrow in natural.

 

:Facepalm: :arghh:

 

You keep connecting an attack against the Zerg with them turning attention to using larvae to morph military units. It's no use starting morphing when the attack has already commenced. You as a Zerg player either already have enough units to fend off an attack, or you don't but pull drones off the line and outnumber the offence. Or even the latter isn't enough and you lose. Whatever the case might be, the outcome of the battle is long decided by the time anything can hatch.

And before you come with the "drones pulled so economic blow to Zerg", all races do that if they need to.

 

using workers to attack is a non standard situation where rush occurred from either side.

Or one of the players merely reacted too late like you said.

In my opinion, starcraft should be a game where standard play does not require one to make defense. It would make the game much more dynamic.

Even though this might be the case in sc2

I still think that terran having the natural ability to lift and repair, that the ability to burrow may be just as natural of an ability if not close to it.

 

Ok, I'm starting to learn more about starcraft 2, so forgive me if I could be mistaken on what actually is going on.

I see that burrow was moved to tier 2 and the cost was reduced from 100/100 to 50/50. At first thought, this really pissed me off because I believe they aren't doing enough and not doing it right. But then, considering that banelings are now in the game, it might make sense. The reason why borrow would be moved to tier 2 is because banelings would be like the equivelent to the lurker, and lurker had borrow naturally, but it was a tier 2 unit. So ok, I can see their train of thought.

One of my ideas was to actually take burrow, and move it to the spawning pool, make it cost 100 minerals and no gas.

Then I saw, that in starcraft 2, a queen costs 100 minerals and no gas, and can be made after spawning pool.

What I'm starting to envision is a queen placing a creep tumor on an opponents natural expo to block it. The creep tumor should be a naturally borrowed unit, so that detection would be required to kill it off. That way, none of the zerg warriors have borrow yet, but zerg is still using what is suppose to be essential, burrow to block enemy natural expo.

Am I right with all this?

after further thought, this might not even be right, because it takes so long for creep to dissolve and allow the opponent to build again.

I still think this game is somewhat over complicating this and it is causing some basic problems.


Perhaps, the tumor would be considered almost the life source of the creep, and the creep would almost be considered dead right away after a creep tumor was killed, so that the opponent could start building almost immediately after the tumor dies.

 

Umm, Creep tumors are already requiring detection, and no, they aren't even burrowed, they are invisible unless you have a detector in the area, at least once they finish building ect.

And while I'm posting, two more things. 1) lots of changes are taking place sense it is beta, so try not to react to each change made as though it is the last one. Some of them are more there to see different reactions of play style from players even if the previous version had no fault. This way they can gather data and ultimately chose which course of gameplay feels right.

And 2) This is tied to my point of changes on-going, but you seem to be...just a tad lagging behind on your information on Starcraft 2, perhaps dig around and research up a bit, and reform your OP to better match what you are truly suggesting as change(s).


Err, I fibbed, one last bit of advise, if able, could you focus on ether your argument of ether colors/dimensions and the like, or game balances instead of sprouting the topic in 2 or more directions? I'm only saying this because it's easy to dispute and converse over gameplay changes then some of the other things being mentioned. That last bit is more my suggestion of course, your thread, so your call.

 

The Queen costs 150 minerals. The Creep Tumors must be built over existing Creep, so you cant put one over the enemy natural expansion, even if the Queen could get there. With her speed outside Creep, it would take her about 5 minutes to get there on a small 1v1 map.

 

I'm going to stick with my original opinion that burrow was suppose to remain on as a researchable ability at the regular hatchery with no gas cost... just simply, 100 minerals.

Because when you can't block a protoss that goes two gate push to make you get ling, setting your economy back, and he goes in to an Fast Expand right after, that is not right. The protoss should be forced to get cannon before expanding, because 2 gate push puts such a heavy dent in zerg's economy.


To perhaps make my point better.

It's not that zerg shares their production with their economy that necessarily slows it down.

It's not that zerg permanently lose their eoconomy(Drone) that slows zergs economy down.

It's the fact that they both lose economy by making offense, AND by having to permanently lose drones by sacrificing for buildings AND defense.

Because we all know that in a 2 gateway zealot push, zerg is forced to not only make offense, but defense as well.

People say that the races aren't really unique, but they are... truly, there is a big difference going from being able to warp buildings in to having to wait well your worker finishes a building, and a huge difference between only waiting for your worker to get done with a building and bringing him back to minerals, and a permanent loss of the worker from making a building.

either 3 things.

Either

A.) they are not slowing the opponent down economically like they should be able to due to the economic blow they recieve from having to make offense and permanently sacrifice economy for buildings including defense. Proposal 100 mineral cost borrow at regular hatch.

B.) they do not function properly according to what their theme is, REACTIVE numbers, and if hatcheries hold 3 larvae per hatch, then it suggests that 3 would be the theme functioning number of zerg and would have 3 lings per egg for 75 minerals, making them the "reactive" race, at least, on the basic army unit level, that they should be.

or

C. Something else should be making zerg defense instead of drones. Apparently the queen is what lays down spine crawlers am I right? Anyways, that makes more sense so that zerg defense production would not Totally screw their economy, having to also permanently sacrifice for all other buildings, and have offensive production halt economic production. It all adds up to too much.

Look what the sc2 armory says about zerg.

http://www.sc2armory.com/game/zerg

"The zerg are a race entirely unlike the terrans or the protoss."

Right in the first sentence.

But the problem is, zerg can't be totally different from the other races or this is not balanced. They may be different in that they sacrifice but they need to be similar two the other races in some way. I think the answer for this was the queen. Because the queen would be laying down defense for money, like how the probe warps in defense, just as conveniently, with out an economic loss from making it.

 

Ok, what could be another argument that zerg should have 3 ling per egg for 75 minerals besides zerg being the reactive quantity race, and zerg's theme number appearing to be 3 (3 larvae per hatch) is the following.

Bunker 100 minerals
Sunken 125 minerals
Photon 150 minerals

Note how the sunken is "Inbetween" in cost. Defense and pawn army should be similar.

Marine- 50
3 ling - 75
Zealot - 100

The marine seems out numbered here, but when you factor 2 scvs having 60 life, 20 more then the other workers, and that they can REPAIR one another to tank for the marines. Now we see that it's balanced.

Anyhow.. I could be wrong and that blizzard has already done something about this, because I noticed that there doesn't seem to be a creep colony stage to zerg's defense anymore, and that it costs 100 minerals, exactly the same as the bunker... and now zerg aren't the odd man out, similar to one of the other races in some fashion. That's more like It blizzard.

I think that perhaps zerg's defense was too unique from the other two races defenses some how... being the cost that it was, and having that intermediate stage. It would be similar to the bunker because it would perhaps cost the same, perhaps taking the same amount of time to build, and similar to protoss in that it must be built in a particular radius, the creep, and being laid down by the queen like how the probe warps in cannon. Atleast, that's how I'm percieving it. Perhaps blizzard really is clearing up this issue.

 

Bunker 100 minerals
Sunken 125 minerals
Photon 150 minerals

There is something you forgot to mention. The Protoss and Zerg versions come with a method of attacking out of the box. While a Terran version needs some Marines or similar to populate the bunker before it can fire. Without it's just a piece of metal rusting in the sun.

Wven if you have spare marines to add, it's still 4-6 marines to factor into the cost. So that's 100 minerals + 50-300 mineral cost (depending on how many marines you bunker up) to make the bunker attack. So clearly it's the most expensive option of the 3 if you factor in this.

And you assume 1 marine = 3 zerglings. A really good zerg player could get that ratio down to 1 marine = 2 zerglings in certian situations. So that changes the comarison there. So I think 3 zerglings per egg is really too much. I think 2 is the sweet spot.

But the Zealot is still the most expensive by far. And it should. In a 1 to 1 comparasion of the 3 units here. The Zealot is the tank. And deserves that higher cost.

 

If you really want to stretch it by providing an open field and ample time 1 zergling would be enough to deal with 1 marine
And let's not forget that a bunker as a defensive structure needs not only extra minerals for units to be loaded but also supply.

You never give any reason why. In this case, why should defence solutions have anything to do with base unit costs?

And why am I still visiting this thread?

 

Why was sunk inbetween cost of bunker and cannon, and now it is the same as bunker with no intermediate creep stage?

Why NOT?