The Terran Valkyrie

Then let me take the words out of your mouth.

Saying that there is no trick to doing something would kinda mean it's something pretty damn easy and simple, thus trivial wouldn't you agree? There is no trick, nothing to it, anyone can do it. I hope this debate doesn't get to the point where I even have to make those simple connections for you and explain to you what you've said. And I suppose mentioning how you've seen amazing accounts of stupidity immediate preceeding the rest of the statements have no meaning and reason at all?

That's either another contradiction or another meanlingless rhetoric btw. Again, you make the call.

Valks don't suck because they aren't effective AA, they can do that job pretty well. It's where they sit when you view how Terran is played on a whole that made them suck. Playing Terran in any evenly matched games on non-island maps will mean you won't have the extra food nor the resources to be put into a dedicated anti air ONLY unit.

Valks do the trick, but that's all in can do if there is even that use. It's a one trick pony. When you can get the AA job done AND every other job like stealth strike with wraiths, it makes getting valks quite meaningless. Valks carry a certain risk to Terran, because Terran's main strength in both offense and defense lie in their overall ground force. Terran doesn't have units as resilient as Toss yet they can't replace lost ground units quickly like Zerg either. But they have a greater dependancy on their ground force compared to the other two races.

It's not the fact that you're getting decent dedicated AA that sucks, it's how it takes away from everything else that sucks big time for Terran. If you think you can single out a unit and evaluate its worth by only looking at what it is alone, you are quite mistaken. But the fact is, valks are not anywhere near as impressive in reality as they are on paper. They can't even do the damage they are supposed to against what they are made to fight. And that's the only thing they can do? Sure sounds like it sucks to me.

Can you make valks and still win? Sure. Can you make queens or scouts and still win? Of course. Queens require micro. Queens were support, obviously because they are casters. Queens spawn broodling to instantly take out key ground units better than any other unit. Queens still sucked like hell.

The fact that you are arguing that valks were good, isn't nearly as urprising that you argue for valks yet you aren't starting a campaign about ultras. Valks sucked.

EDIT: @ FlyingTiger
Valk's were made to take down the other races' swarms of tactical air units, scouts and mutas. But since you won't see anyone using scouts, it'll be corsairs instead. That's the role of valks, but valks can't deal propler damage to its these targets because corsairs are medium(75% damage) and mutas are small(50% damage). Valks themselves are large and take full damage from EVERYTHING that can attack air.

Valk's base damage is 6 per missile not 5 btw. But it'll never do that 6 against things you get valks for. And it's pretty textbook to focus on armor upgrade over attack upgrade for air. And splash damage from attack that were already very weak in the first place(valk missiles, corsair attacks, muta bounces without devourers), become increasingly useless the more armor the enemy units have.

I've explained it all in my Units That Sucked thread. Devourer cooldown isn't really a weakness because you don't have them for dealing direct damage anyway. And against devs, valk's cooldown will become longer than devs. And of course, your damage equations are really not how it goes down.

 

I <3 Remy
I never liked valkyries

 

Thank you, I love you too Nikzad.

The only unit that I didn't like at all in any way was the broodling.

 

yea u r right remy ... thats why i use them for support... not really as a main attack force anyways

haha at least you can destroy a tank with one shot and have a couple of annoying broodlings to do some mini-damage

 

i loved broodlings!
power overwhelming + the gathering + operation cwal + your queen camping a terran factory ;D

but holy shiz never knew i was missing the battle between two of the most _____ minds of this forum in this thread! i would just *sits back with a packet of popcorn* but nah....stop arguing about the valk! it sucks full stop you use them then gg! a friend of mine used it and gg! my enemy used it and gg! that guy used it gg!

 

you could do that to the barracks and the command center too

 

wraith > valkaries

i personally hate valks

 

valks are a bit too specialized for my taste. If the opponents don't have air, which they *should* have, they're completely useless. Anyways, wraiths are better w/ their cloaking. They're faster too I think.

 

I still don't understand why Blizzard took out the Afterburners for the Valkyries. For those who didn't know, during the BW beta, Valkyries had an afterburner ability. It wouldn't make them overpowered in any case. I would make them more useful for sure. But even with the afterbuner ability, I don't think the Valkyries will still be too useful. The reason is simply because they were too expensive for what they could do. The Corsairs could basically do the same thing + more.

 

First of all, if valks even make it back, they need to be dropped to 2 food, among other changes of course. Terran doesn't need a 3 food single use AA only unit.

That's one of the worst things about valks. Most people fail to consider that fact when they evaluate a valk's damage output.

 

mass valk on zerg overlords=owned/gg

 

Actually, mass valk of 3 food each = Terran get owned on ground/gg

While Zerg is undeniably the most vulnerable(actually the ONLY race) to supply hunt strat, most self-respecting Zerg players know this. With good recon and a few well placed spores, it won't be too hard to fend of an ovie hunt. The ones roaming around outside of the base would be reasonable losses.

Even though Zerg is vulnerable to ovie hunting, Zerg is also the one race that can replace a large amount of lost food supply very quickly. With the mass valk ovie hunt that you're talking about, the Terran would be aiming for a small window of production delay, one round of larva production cycle, to take advantage of.

I don't know how big a "mass" we're talking about here, but for every valk it's that much less on the ground for Terran, which is needed more for actual damage. And if it's truly a large number of valks, which will basically be a near suicidal all-in strat in itself, if the assault fails it's pretty much GG for the Terran.

 

you mean you dont go supply depot hunting? O.O

 

Not really. When I drop or air raid, SCVs are usually my focus a lot of times. After that I usually hit key tech buildings. Armories, control towers, and comsat are some good ones, other ones if I have more time. I rarely touch people's combat units, supply building, or unit production building.

If it's later in the game vs Terran, if you can get your guys in there deep enough to hit supply depots without dropping or air raiding, then it's pretty much over at that point. I save supply buildings and production buildings for full assaults because P/T can't really pump out replacement units fast enough to save their asses anyway.

 

i hunt pylons ^.^
just because they look funny ;D
j/k

 

If they put valks back, they would really need something like mass lockdown for half the time to be of any use (to me, at least). Personally, stem marines did the same job pretty much just as well (when working with a few turrents)

 

doesn't matter. I'm now sure that the scv, battlecruiser, marine, ghost, and dropship are the only returning terran units

 

yeah since there are now replacements for the wraith/goliath and the goliath.

 

I still think that there is a chance for wraith to make a return.

 

with the cloak, possibly. if it didnt have the cloak, it would be gone for sure.