The Terran Advantage

yup. If there's 15 tanks lined up and it takes two shots to kill hydras in a group, only two tanks will fire at each group of hydras. In SC1 the tanks would ALL fire at whatever unit was aggro first.

This lead to the opportunity to outmicro the tanks (which was pretty difficult)... you could approach from the side first with 3 zealots a bit spread out to take the tank hits, then rush in with dragoons to hopefully snipe out the tanks before the zealots died.

That was hard enough to pull off properly, esp with marines and goliaths backing up the tanks... Now, in that same scenario with SC2 rules, some of the tanks won't fire on the zealots, they'll wait for the dragoons, so you really have no possible way of approaching tanks with ground units.

To counter that anti-tank micro, terran players would stagger their tanks in a grid so that tank fire would come at different ranges... the first line of tanks would instantly kill a few units, then the next line would target the next units, and so on. It was a good meta game.

Also in SC1 tank damage was not dealt instantly, there was a slight delay between the tank firing and the shot hitting the target so often the main target would not take 100% damage from the shot if it was moving. In SC2 the tank damage is instant and always right on target.

I'm confused as to why this meta-game was removed from SC2. It allowed skill and tactics to be as important as unit composition... now, tanks are impenetrable.

 

agreed, less micro really is less fun, particularly since they also removed the ultra upgrades. I'd really rather have some dumber tanks. The only fortunate thing is that i haven't noticed terran players utilizing them as much as in sc1

 

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
Zerg needs a bit of love but all 3 races have very similar winrations in all leagues.

Stats ain't everything but it's interesting to see imo

 

And that "nobody" wants to play zerg actually, you don't find worrying at all?

But that's not only due to them being underpowered but to the fact, that they are least fun to play with, have least interesting (and also fewest) units and almost no real upgrades. As somebody put it, they are not only underpowered, but also underpolished.

 

i think they have the greatest learning curve as well. The macro abilities needed to manage them is imo harder than the other races and requires more apm, but regardless I think if they are underpowered or lack flexibility its something that will change in the coming expansion packs. I enjoy playing the race and will continue to do so. I don't need lurkers or another upgrade here or there to make them fun. I'd be nice, but I don't want to be in the position that I'm easily crushing the other races. I just want balance and competitiveness.

Let's also remember that the game is fresh out of the box and it will take time for the races and the mechanics to settle a bit.

 

An MM push to try and end the game is terrible. Whenever a terran tries that on me, whether I'm protoss or zerg, its like handing me the win on a silver platter. Both races I scout it with a zergling/zealot/overlord, then laugh and take my natural. Enemy comes to destroy it. As protoss I just zealot + sentry, trap his whole force and slaughter it with the zealots while they are unable to micro away. With zerg I just wait until they try to attack my spine crawlers, then surround with lings from multiple directions. Attack failed, now its two bases to one and I have the army advantage, pretty much auto win. And both those techniques take less micro than a terran needs to stim-attack-run-attack-run-attack-run.

Sure, high level terrans still go MM early on. But they never push and try to end the game with it. It just doesn't work, ever, against even mediocre players who know the counters to it.

Also, yeah they can go mech instead, but you can take your natural and tech up to counter tanks, and the game evens out.

Conclusion: terran is not OP, quit your whining.

 

Lol reading through this thread, it seems half the posters are bashing on the OP saying "instead of blaming imbalance, improve your own skill"

good point, No more balancing the game, forget balance patches, just play through the imbalance with your own "skills" *sarcasm*

The OP has a point, MMM is too easy to do and takes a crap load of effort and skill to counter, just try to find out what counters you can against the MMM and in the mean time, hope MMM gets nerfed.

 

It really is hard to say, I think. I lost many games today, even against terran, which I usually win against. It was a bad day for me, but I think I learned something today: if terran masses mmm + thors, you usually loose with 1 and 2 tier unis. I even lost to a noob toss today, because my play was so bad. I have the feeling that protoss are imbalanced, but rationally, I realize that this is just my feeling because I have a hard time against toss personally, others don't. I think, with rational thought, someone with 100/150 + league games can get behind his frustration and feel imbalances. But maybe it takes more, I don't know.

What I want to say ( even if I didn't, omg it's late here), I don't want to be one of the guys who have to figure out the balancing, it must be so hard. Personally, I do think that terran have some extras which other races don't have, like the scan for nearly nothing, or a powerful mixture of early units (mm) which is damn hard to counter, especially for toss. I, as zerg, can go against it with blings and speedlings, which usually works. But my mobility, which OP-is-not-existent-sayers like to mention, is limited in it's usefulness. My oh so fast zerglings dont get past the wall, especially with a tank behind it, I have map control, yeah, but that is no use against a terran who just masses mm and some thors and attacks at the right time. I think, if a terran walls, masses and attacks, and does this at the right time, it is a guaranteed win. He must do it with enough firepower and before I outmacro or get ultras/infestors with neural parasite. Thanks to scan, he usually knows when the time is right. You might say, do an ov drop or nydus. I need to commit many resources to the drop/worm, and my units attacking the mineral line have a high chance of dying eventually in the base. Thus, I commit many resources and units to this harass, and the terran just needs to attack an empty base in return. Mutas only work well against newbies, against good players I might get 3 scv kills with 5 mutas worth 500min/500gas. Yeah, that paid off.

That's my thoughts, feel free to criticise.

 

One of the main things I try to do vs terran is hide all my tech. I've placed buildings in weird places as toss.

As zerg, I think you could do the same by dropping creep with an overlord and making a creep tumor, but that is a lot of work/time/research

Every little bit helps

 

Totally agree

 

lol@the fail.

He said you can make a stargate after a gateway.. wrong. Ooh build a barracks, factory, and starport... zomg, a standard 1-1-1 build no wai! Terran can transition into literally anything they can make and get useful units out of the starport whereas a toss invested $ in something that may only be marginally useful.

That's one of the issues, the fact that 3 terran buildings makes 15 million different units and that each building can counter just about anything on its own. Barracks counters all tier 1, all tier 2, and most tier 3 (all tier 3 with good tactics). Factory counters all ground and thors own light air, tanks are godly with smart fire. Starport hard counters all air and colossus, offers MMM/drops at the same time, and offers a cloaked anti-armored.

Gateway vs Terran counters... air once you tech to blink. Zealots are the meat of the army and with sentries and a choke can hold off (not really counter) tier 1 units for a while then are weak vs tier 2. Sentries are useful for most of the game unless he gets ghosts. Robotics counters ground but marines own immortals and colossi are useless once there's a group of vikings on the field. DTs can be useful but often are a waste of time/resources. High temps are a great infantry/MMM counter but only if you can snipe out ghosts/spread your temps/hallucinate extra temps. Voids counter thors but not very well since thors are always supported by stimmed marines. Phoenixes can counter tanks but a couple turrets/marines kinda kills that strat quickly.

Basically, with Toss, whatever tech tree you pick leaves you weak against something the Terran can just spam. You have to tech switch multiple times while the terran can sit on the same tech the whole game. You can't win against a Terran that scouts properly in a straight up battle, you have to harass (which you're not really set up to do well and he is, being a Terran), catch units in transit, knock out production buildings, and catch the Terran out of position. If the gigantic ball is meandering towards your base you really have to just attack the main, in most cases a proper Terran ball is untouchable. The most fun part is losing the base race to a flying building, even when you have an extra expansion away from the main.

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Not only that but in his post he fails to understand how a banshee harass is superior to a DT harass... not only does it come out much sooner, it's in the air, plus it can come right on the heels of a hellion harass which requires different units.

and don't get me started on that marauder proxy, I don't think it's actually defendable, especially since the standard toss opening is fast stalker to counter reapers...

 

Usually diamond. Got moved down to gold now since I took a break.

But why is that relevant anyway? All your arguments have been based around the idea that terrans are balanced for the pros, but not for the amateurs. So... why do does it matter which leage I am in?

 

maybe thoses replay can help you figure out that terran aren't god.

alright i'm not really pro and my opponent wasn't either but noob can learn something. Try not flaming me so much.


http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=140867#/replay_overview

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=140866

take note that you must open your game to see them.

 

One of the most annoying things I can't stand right now is the terrans ability to just lift up their barracks and switch it with the starport for easy banshees :/ Then they can switch it back and forth. Meanwhile, I have to spend hundreds of minerals/gas to counter it...When they are simply switching

 

So true.

 

Terran isn't zerg, they can't just get one of each building and then mass produce any unit they want. Say the terran got 1-1-1, and then his scan revealed the enemy getting tons of blink stalkers. Okay, time to mass marauders then! Oh wait he can't, because he has only 1 barracks. Protoss blinks into his main with 40 stalkers, terran only has 10 marauders and gets wiped. Good game.

Wrong. Zealots and sentries will defeat any barracks tech you can put together. The quicker you accept it, the quicker you will stop losing games to terrans that try that "no skill" strategy.

 

the reason there are so many complaints about Terran tier 1 is the range. What's funny to me is that terran tier 1 doesn't feel any more op than it did in SC. In fact as zerg i feel better equipped to counter it. The truth is that zerg got the better of the deal the second banelings were put on the field. We just lost on without the tier 2 lurker, while terran got significant upgrades across the board.

We can b!tch and complain but the game has been released. Ultimately it will require opposing races to come up with better strategies. I remember a few months ago when they were calling toss OP and yet that's calmed with time, lets realize that the game is still being discovered and give it some time

 

don't tell me you don't scout before the 40 stalkers with blink are out

 

Don't tell me you never proxy-pylon. It's one of the coolest toys in the protoss arsenal.

 

No, terran scouts and sees 15 stalkers. Even if he immediately puts down additional barracks, he will be hard pressed to get enough marauders in time.