The Terran Advantage

Do you seriously think Blizzard can ignore the obvious - "the obvious" as in every noob can see it plus it has been voiced by pros continuously. I think alung2k3 and bovineblitz have summed it up rather well: terrans turtle and scan you whereas scouting costs zerg 100 mins each time (and you don't know how far the ol gets); and then they have certain pre-set strats at hand, easy follow-ups: reaper harrass (which forces toss to build a stalker asap and zerg to get speedlings), then either hellion harrass (zerglings suck, you need roaches -> another speed upgrade) or marauder harrass (roaches suck, you need speedlings and possibly banelings -> yet another speed upgrade) or a fast mmm drop into your mineral line (have fun as zerg with your units at your expo running them to your min line as quickly as possible) or a timing push with marauders and one or two tanks. Of course mutas won't help because thors and marines just rape them. So as zerg you have to be prepared for about anything while you are denied proper scouting. And the biggest joke about terran is that they can pull that all off of ONE BASE. Their units cost next to no gas, even tier three can easily be produced of one base.

And the problem is that with zerg you have to be much better to beat a weak terran who follows two or three strategies. I know that the pros can fend of a reaper and hellion harrass and the following timimg push and so on. But as the terrans op rap goes: "you shouldn't have to be a pro to beat got damn build".

 

Alright, but do you guys have any concrete suggestions, at all? All I'm reading in this thread is "every terran unit is overpowered, remove the race from the game".

Hell, Bovineblitz even claims that missile turrets are OP :wacko: !? I said that nerfing the scan somehow might be a good idea, since it makes countering far too easy.

 

I'd have tons of suggestions: First and foremost, make terran units (slightly) more expensive in gas, so fast massing them at the beginning of a game (and being able to mass them mid game still of one base) becomes more difficult. Esp the marauder (25 gas?) comes to mind. Make hellions need to upgrade for their speed (or make their normal attack (no pre-ig) weaker); other races have to buy upgrades w/o which the unit is useless as well (roach speed, thermal lenses, hydra range etc) - although I don't really like the concept of units which HAVE to buy upgrades to be proper units, rather the (zerg) building should be made more expensive. Make medivacs more expensive or reduce their healing ability (less "mana"). Reapers should also cost slightly more (rather in minerals, not gas to retain their early harrassment ability). And something must be done about thors' anti light air (= mutas), I don't know what would be appropriate though (u can't nerf them too hard or they will lose their role). Maybe an increase in build time. Your idea with the scan is also very good!

Also a buff to zerg spine crawlers would help big time!

 

i dont have trouble beating the terran
zerglings just rape marauders if they dont have the slow upgrade and i dont know about marines
but mutas aren't really that bad against them once you have 6 or 7 you will need a lot of marines to take them out at least if you micro your mutas well (unless the marines have stim and are backed up be medivacs)
but i agree about the scan ^^

 

The only thing I can really agree on is "Make hellions need to upgrade for their speed"

I think that not only stays with the mechanics of the game across all races, but it makes the pre-ignitor upgrade a trade-off for the speed upgrade. That said, the game has been released and Blizzard isn't going to make any major changes until the expansion pack imo.

I do pretty well against terran for the most part. I've gotten pwned pretty often by mech, but thats my own fault because I didn't react very well. I'm still trying to get some experience with every strategy I'm faced with and how to counter them when I scout, so I won't say it's imba yet. I will say that the infantry I'm dealing pretty well with. I actually like playing terran for once, I could never have said that in the starcraft. Thank god for banelings!!!!

People complain about terran imba, but i feel it was far worse in the original game. That said, I wouldn't be displeased to see a lurker addition in the expansion pack....PLEASE!!!!!!!

 

My suggestions (general list, not all of them would necessarily be applied at once that could be an overnerf):

make Terran have to go 2 gas for reaper/marauder, that'll help cut into their mineral income early on.

Thors come out too quickly IMO and they need some sort of weakness, removing splash is a start. The other massive units in the game have major weaknesses, the Thor's should be equivalent.

Marauders should be nerfed in one of the following ways: range reduced to 4, no stim, less damage vs armored, or HP reduced.

Tanks should not smart fire if no other units in the game do not (why don't my immortals smart fire if tanks do?)

IMO, planetary fortress makes no sense, why does Terran get such a ridiculous static defense that can kill a huge army on its own? Either force it to be manned by marines or cut it out entirely, it really has no place in multiplayer.

Do vikings really need an air to air range of 9 and do they need to be so cheap to produce?

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Idk what to suggest about the issue that even with all of the above nerfs Terran would still completely dictate the game because they have reaper/hellion/banshee harasses that all require completely different units to stop, just the threat of such things leaves the opponent open to something like a timed MM tank push. It'd take a bunch of balancing and testing to figure out how to tweak the dynamics of this and it's hard to consider all of the effects it would have on the game.

 

In RTS games theres always a race or two that is easier to play in low to mid-tier leagues. In SC1 it was really easy to turtle as terran with siege tanks and bunkers and a lot of players lost to that because they just threw units away trying to break the defenses. In SC2 Terran is easier to understand and play for most players (I find zerg to be twice as hard to play correctly). But Terrans against good players in SC1 generally got destroyed.

But if it was so imbalanced then the top 10 players in the world would be all Terran, also everyone would play Terran (in terms of race choices toss and terran are pretty even from players with zerg a distant 3rd).

When you get to the high-level games you'll find those imbalances disappear and strategies are coined to deal with these problems.

Personally I play terran in the platinum league, I have no trouble against 3/4-gate protoss because my bioball + ghosts is just going to annihilate them. Thats the protoss' fault because I scouted and I made the appropriate counter. But when they start switching to void-ray harass or mass robo units then it becomes a very very tough game. I lose most of those.

 

I also find zerg a lot tougher to play than the original sc. In fact, if I wish i played sc as well as I play sc2. I find that the queens, larvae, creep management takes a ton of extra apm that a player first becoming exposed to the game will not be able to master and it really is crucial. I feel that as a zerg player, you really need to be on top of your hot keys, and constant larvae spawning. It makes you a better player no matter what race you play, but in particular i think it's absolutely necessary for zerg players.

I don't mind the fortress tbh, there are instances where I find fortress spamming annoying (e.g. late game) but i'd rather that then let them have more mules for instances.

 

Well I still think you guys are going too far. One or two nerfs are fine, an across-the-board nerf is just too much and will never happen. I didn't think this thread was about taking away every advantage Terrans had, just suggestions making them more manageable.

Planetary fortresses aren't even good, IMO. My expands always get taken down by air anyway.

It's not like Terran is the only race with cheese strats either. Blizzard should nerf proxy pylons and void rays as well, if they implemented but half of the suggestions here against terrans. There's no point in nerfing one race just to put another on top.

 

Ahm, my suggestions were alternatives, not all inclusive.

 

demanding all these nerfs is kind of ridiculous...

nerfing thors to help zerg out and nerfing marauders cost or hp for protoss should balance things out. tweak ghost/hellions so they're not OP against P/Z but useless verse Z/P.

also, always thumbs down desert oasis

edit: i also hate the interchangeability of reactors/tech labs :/. leads to too quick hellion mass against zerg and really fast banshee harass

 

Well yeah what I said was all of those suggestions would be an overnerf, I was just throwing ideas out there. Probably two of them would be all that's necessary.

First you want suggestions, then there's too many suggestions...

I think Terran would still be on top even after 2-3 nerfs because they still dictate the other races' builds.

 

NOTE! : Too lazy to read other comments.

Vikings? Support your void rays with phoenixes and stalkers. *check*
MMM. *cough* You know that achievement unbreakable (1 unit 40 kills)? It's fairly easy to get that with 1 colossi, 9 range, and army support ^^
and btw, i just snipe the medivacs (omg so much easier than sc1) with stalkers, use sentry guardian shield and wipe out his army with stalker/immortal/colossi.
banshees?
who cares. stalkers w/e blink + observer w/ chrono boost. works especially well in kulas ravine imo u shud be getting out obs asap in pvt.
Turtling in?
I love it
Lets see.... a well mixed, 200-supply army, with good map control and several expansions...
well then....hmm maybe lets add in mothership recall....that.....can't be too healthy for the opposing player

and btw yes I changed what he said.

 

having one unit in the entire game have smart targetting is OP. Make everything have the same AI for attacking. Make everything smart fire or nothing.

Scans? OP. No other race has the vision a terran player has. He can see anything he wants at any time. Toss and zerg both have detectors that die. Terran can't scan from the other side of the map. Overseers aren't even cloaked like observers. They are the easiest thing in the world to kill.

sensor tower. nuff said. Xel'naga watch tower anywhere on the map.

 

Now you're talking. So which two ones would you choose, then? Personally I think scan nerf and no more slow for Marauders would be enough. Smart firing tanks are ok, it doesn't make sense logically that only they should, but then again my vikings should be able to move and fire like your phoenixes do too

If you let your opponent dictate your build all the time then that is a sign that he is outplaying you IMO, it's basically the same thing as letting him have the initiative. That's not a valid reason for claiming Terrans are OP. Keep us harassed and holed up in our base. Unlike protoss and zerg we can't just speed-build new units at our bases to scare attackers away, we have to walk back with our main army. Use that to your advantage and keep terrans on the defense while you spread out and get an economic advantage.

 

I agree on this, terran can only dictate your game if you let them, as it is with any other opponent.

What is smart fire? I thought tanks hurt own units with their splash damage?

 

Still as noob as normal...


What I see is mostly Protoss complaining about the OP-ness of Terran. They at least have an easier time. Stalkers are efficient both ground and air attack units, while good storms still completely own. EMP is the same as before, only from a Ghost, a useless unit unlike the previous Vessel.

Medivacs are incredibly easy to snipe, and Zealots with Charge are difficult to micro away from properly. And Protoss has great economy.

A lot of the same basics from SC: BW still apply to killing Terrans.

Now if you play Zerg... *shudders*

I quit Zerg for Random.

 

I'll let you know the next time I play a game against a Terran that winds up getting to 200 supply with a mothership on the field. Could be a while.

Btw phoenixes suck against vikings, the vikings will easily snipe out your voids/colossi even with an army of stalkers firing on them (meanwhile your stalkers are getting owned). Nobody moves out with JUST vikings. Same with sniping out medivacs, by the time you snipe them all out you won't have any stalkers left... IMO you're better off focusing down the marauders, target the medivacs with feedback if you have templar. You also need zealots to eat damage.

And banshees aren't a big deal in combat, it's the harassment by 2-3 banshees all over the map that's annoying.

 

May I humbly ask what league you are in?

 

I have no problem letting them dictate my play, as a zerg player I do nothing but come up with situations where I am at an advantage against my terran opponents. I have faith in my ability to churn out the proper units to balance out a battle in time.

Things that are annoying to me, are the snipe ability of ghosts, the ridiculous speed of hellions that really needs to be an upgrade instead of an automatic.

As i understand it smart firing by tanks means that there are no overkills. Essentially a group of tanks will work together so that only enough tanks fire to kill a unit and not all fire at once at the closest unit in range.