The New Lurker!

im really confused with the lurker being in a different tier now.. does this mean that its now gonna be a bit late before u can even get 1 lurker... i mean its not on the same tym that you can get a lurker like the siege tank right?? is the lurker now a late game unit now?

 

Yeah, the Hydralisk has been pushed back in the tech tree, and because the Lurker is an evolution of the Hydralisk, it's obviously even later. I assume that the Roach is taking the Hydralisk's old position in the tech tree, but I'm not sure.

 

Hydras comes at Lair, you think lurkers will require Hive? Because if not, the lurker isnt coming later then in SCBW

 

Quick note. Lurkers are too small.

 

The Lurkers will always come after the Hydralisks. Even if you don't need the Hive for the Lurkers, you've still got to upgrade the Lurker Aspect. And even if you don't have to upgrade the Lurker Aspect, you still need the Hydralisk first.

 

Yes, but in SCBW you upgraded the "lurker aspect" at tier 2, so thats tier 2.5
So perhaps the lurker in SC2 is the same tier as the lurker in SCBW, its just the hydralisk that is higher tier!?

 

thats so screwed... a late hydra is a late lurker definitely..

 

Why? This is not SC 1.5

 

Oh k, I see what you're saying. No need to get angry, dude, just clarify what you mean.
Even if Lurkers are the same tier as they were in StarCraft1, with the Hydralisk coming in later, I doubt they'll be used as extensively early on. In StarCraft1, Zerg players usually had a fair amount Hydralisks before they got the Lurker Aspect, so if they're now acquired at roughly the same time, players won't necessarily have as many Hydralisks to spare.

 

Yeah yeah i agree, I think the Hydralisks should be tier 1.5 too, but this is a topic about lurkers, so i did not mention it.

 

Ok, here's how I see it working vs Protoss:

Lings (1 building)-> Get Zealots (tier 1);

Roaches (2 buildings)-> Get Stalkers (tier 2);

Banelings (4 buildings)-> Get Immortals (tier 3);

Hydras (4 buildings)-> Get Colossus (tier 4) or HT (tier 4);

Luker (5 buildings)-> Get an Observer (tier 4);

These are probably meant to match the Protoss tech-tree's arrangement. If it really goes like this I don't like it at all.

 

Thats not right Overling. My expierences from pro.gaming (not playing, watching commentaries) says:

Zerg
Hatchery Tier 1
Lair Tier 2
Hive Tier 3
Zerglings: Tier 1 (hatchery + pool)
Roaches: Tier 1.5 (hatchery + pool + roach den)
Baelings: Tier 1.5 (hatchery + pool + baneling building)
Hydralisk: Tier 2 (Lair + hydralisk den
Lurker: Tier 2/2.5 (Lair + hydralisk den + upgrade)

Protoss:
Zealot: Tier 1 (gateway + nexus)
Stalker: Tier 1.5 (gateway + that building)
Immortal: Tier /2 (nexus + gateway + cybernetic core + the next building)*
Colussus: Tier 2.5 (nexus + gateway + cybernetic core + robotic faccility + robotic support bay)
Etc.

Ofc you post showed what unit matched other unit, where my post just showed what tier the units were in.

Edit: As you can see, every building counts for 0.5 because normaly you will have 1 "normal warior", and then 1 "better warior" who requires an "addon".

*http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/art...s-and-terran-tech-trees-20070803094136262.jpg

 

We have to remember that the tos are almost complete and the zerg have just showed up so there are many nurfs and buffs to come. so don't think that the builds are set yet.

 

If you look at the protoss and terran builds (tech-tree wise), they havend changed at all...

 

There was probably no need to change them. My guess is they're focusing on the unit balance right now.

 

Add-ons are only counted for terran buildings. Protoss don't have 0.5 tiers besides Archons, and Zergs' 0.5 tiers come from units evolving from previously built ones. Evolving from another counts as 0.5, as you don't need the evolution to be available to build the base unit, but will count this time later in case you need to build more base-units (base-units = units that evolve into others). Terran add-ons, on account of being switchable, can be ready previously from the next building completion, and therefore units that require add-ons are also counted as 0.5 because of the possibility of doing that and having no set-backs in terms of time to build them.

So, if Roaches require a whole other building to be made, one that can only start being built after the previous is done, her tier should be 1 whole number above lings. And banelings require nest, which in turn require Lair, and they're built from lings. Their tier should be Spawning Pool (1) + Lair (1) + Nest (1) + Evolution (0.5) = 3.5, unless Nest is built from hatchery, but I think they must be Lair units.

 

Thats not right overling.
Each building counts for 0,5 , like dragoons were 1.5 in starcraft BW. Another example is Vultures being tier 1.5 and Tanks being Tier 2.
Evolution does not counts in those situations, as its just like making a unit.

 

If you choose to count each building as 0.5, then its the same, just halve every number I posted.

 

I dont take evulution in my teori too.
But really, this is the normal tier aspect used in all the pro commentaries of SC i watch. But i also wrote that:

So it was no critique.

 

wait, starcraft 1.5? im still confused about that... what do people mean by that.