The Firebat

You forgot;
Marine + 159 Marines = death

 

Marines + Medics doesn't counter Hydra. I won't repeat the discussion that I had on another topic, but trust me.

Marines + Ghosts counter BCs? Only if the armor upgrades are still undone (and the BC is alone against the Ghost and zounds of Marines). Marines + Siege-tanks vs. Ultras is fun to watch, as the marines don't make a difference. And once the Ultra gets to the ST, neither does he.

BTW, you forgot Marines + reavers = own zerg ground; Marines + Lurkers = own ground non-detectors; Marine + air-unit = remaining scourges and Marines standing by. Marines + Siege-tanks = SCVs + Siege-tanks; SCVs + BCs > Marines + BCs; Marine + Wraith = SCV + Wraith = critter + Wraith; Vultures > Marines + Vultures; and Marine + Goliath = waste of minerals that could have gone into more Goliath production.

 

Seems it turned into a Reaper discussion a bit here...

I agree (a bit belatedly) with Remy's assessment of the situation, as I outlined in the Warcraft Developers thread. I discussed how moving the Viking is a huge mistake and is quite obviously an attempt to compensate for the fact that the Viking is too powerful at the factory position, and yet is not powerful enough at the higher tier.

The Protoss have some powerful weapons in their new mechanics, such as warp-in, etc. that the Viking is needed to counter. But when the Viking was in place to counter these mechanics, it was overpowered, so they resorted to the age-old Terran solution: rely on the Seige Tank.

To me this is a mistake because I've been praising Blizzard's development of a *GASP* second Terran offensive (and defensive) option in the emphasis on infantry and use of the Viking. Going this second route would effectively put the Seige Tank in a support role rather than its traditional on-the-front-lines and bang it out type of offensive that has been lovingly referred to (by Remy first of all) as the "Terran one-shot momentum."

The introduction of the Viking is such a lauded position was effectively the end of the Terran reliance on this strategy and opened up a whole new world.

We've talked in a number of threads about the persistent need for a Terran anti-infantry option in SC2, especially if Dark Swarm were to make a reappearance. In fact, since the Firebat is again in the current build, I'm pretty convinced we'll be seeing a similar spell from the Zerg, and that's one of hte main reasons the Firebat made it back, especially at a higher (Tier 2) position.

But even though Terran does need an anti-infantry option, this wasn't the correct way to go. We've talked about Reapers with a Flamethrower attack and a number of different options, but nowhere do I remember anyone saying a mechanized Firebat was a good idea. And now that it has come up, I still don't think it's a good idea.

To me this is Blizzard's way of saying "we like the Protoss mechanics so we have to buff up the Terran to make them able to cope instead of coming up with new things for the Terran, including a way to mitigate between the Viking and overpowering the other races."

I think I'll be sending Blizzard a quite clear message in this month's report about our opinion of the new role of the Firebat.

 

i dont like the new firebat either

i would rather see a completely new idea that is at least somewhat of a multi-level helpful unit
kinda like the hydra
it was low tier low cost highly efficient bone crusher
except with the terran it would be a less versatile (for balance)

i dont see a very good use for the firebat right now
why would you want an expensive, overspecialized, MELEE unit?
hydras will crush them now because if you simply spread them out the now expensive firebats will be to expensive to be an effecient hydra killer

heres a better way to say it:
and every new firebat can kill 3 hydras (1:3)
which means 3 hydras kills on firebat (3:1)
but as any good microer knows to focus fire
and if you use the hit and run / jump around / run 'n gun you can spare your hydras
the micro makes the firebats useless

another example:
zerglings vs expensive firebats
the zerglings will out number the firebat
lets say the firebat attack 4 units at once (2 more than regular sc - correct me if im wrong)
and 12 zerglings surround each one at a time
the firebat could only kill maybe 4/12 if its luck (the zerglings are gods when it comes to damage)
the fire bats will be much to expensive to create a force just to kill lings or any other small massers

 

well lets correct you. first zerglings do get owned in sc1 by firebats easly. and lets also add who says the new firebats are ganna be expensive??? who says they wont have stim with there added armor and life. whos to say meds and any ablitys the fire bat my get wont make hum unstoppble?? and zergling surrounding firebets??? you must play on highly open maps too much.

 

i was kinda assuming they were (at least at that stage of the game)
also i was going out on a limb with no meds healing them
i apologize for not stated the assumptions

but i still don't like em

 

I understand where your coming from. Altho the new firebat is not something you want to see because we all want to see something new the firebat is still an ass whooping force mid game. even tho you dont think there ganna be useful. At this point from what we have seen you need to fear the new ghost marine and medic combo with newly added reaper. Also from what i can see terrans now can spit out units faster with the reactor add-ons. And let me add one more tidbit off heart breaking information from what i hear about old reporsts getting money is easyer for some odd reason. The way the game was made the miners are flawless, only the person is to blame for lack of money meaning you lack skills.

 

firebats will actually take a better role than sc1. Firebats DO have stim and can still go inside bunkers. Now with more health, they can withstand more damage = they have more time to burn lings and other things. The model they made for the bat is boring and looks too mechish for me and I hate it. But the IDEA of using the firebat again for SC2 is actually good.