The feel of the game?

Re: “The feel of the game�

This convo is getting crazy! I love it! Where is Dr. Phil when you need him?

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Hmmmm...SC has a lot of philosophy in it that I didn't realize until just now....I love these types of topics! ^_^ Maybe SC is in a way the modern-day epic in the same way that Star Wars is a modern-day epic

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

The protoss are the yankees, the terrans are the red socks, and the zerg are the mets

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

If you compared it to history, specifically World War II, you could compare Zerg to the Russians, Terran to United States, and Protoss to German

The Russians had inferior technology in many regards (not all, but many) at the beginning of the war, and they used the philosophy that if they threw enough men at the Germans, something was bound to stick (no offense to any Russians). This ties in directly with the Zerg, whose strategy is to produce massive numbers of units to overwhelm the enemy, but suffer great numbers of casualties.

The United States could be compared to the United States, with technology superior to that of the Russians (Zerg), inferior to that of the Germans (Protoss), but with higher production rates, which compensated for their weakness. The logistics of the US was pretty good too, which can be tied in with the sturdiness of the SCV. Germany had stronger tanks (ie Tiger, and King Tiger, although the latter never went into mass production), but the United States had many more tanks to replace those that were destroyed (ie the Sherman)

The Germans had probably the best and most powerful machinery and weaponry during the early stages of the war and relied more on their superior technology than their numbers (much like the Protoss)


how about that for a historic parallel? 8)

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

I think that's a good historic parallel Nikzad
Or going even farther back, The Romans are the Protoss, the Germanic hordes are the Zerg, and the Hellenic groups (greece, macedon, selucids, ptolomy's egypt, etc...) are the terran
Romans had the best tech and everything
Germanics relied on numbers
Hellenics were in the middle.

Granted the Romans crushed the Hellenic groups one by one and added them to their empire and crushed part of the germans.

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Not a poor analogy at all. Zerg hive culture is also reminiscent of Soviet communism and the portrayal of the Zerg infestation is very similar to portrayal of communism during the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare">Red Scare</a>. I even seem to remember a video briefing in one of the original games drawing heavily on the Red Scare-rhetorics, with Zerg colonization shown as a red arrows eating up one planet after the other.

Protoss are not quite nazis of course, but they have elements in common like their mysticism and strong zeal.

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Why, those seem quite good historical parallels Nikzad and paragon, both. I've not thought much about those references myself, I must admit. I was thinking more in the lines of modern/popular culture references...I had not realised the historial layers buried in the universe of Starcraft...I must ponder this... :-\

I also see - quite clearly - that I'm far from alone in my enthusiasm for the game; both concreteasflesh and GM_k displayed their love of the games - both the original and the upcoming - quite effectively...

Also, Zoot, the Freudian angle is quite interesting, I think...and plausible as well it seems...
Earlier you experienced a concern - and I've dealt with a similar issue - the incomprehension of "book-worms" - that generally do not realise the potential and the deeper layers of some video games - such as StarCraft...I think that this topic and discussion resembles quite the contrary...

That's not to say anything bad of book-worms of course...I'm one myself, I think...

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Much of the Star Trek references in Starcraft are merely the following....
"Star" in the title.

The possibility of the Terrans being "Humanoids". (Essentially more than just mere Earth Humans, Ghosts would be considered part of the humanoid family, as they could possibly be from a humanoid planet, unless we believe the whole psychic experimentation concept...)

Terrans (As a whole) based from the Terran Empire in Star Trek. (Whose roots are strongly based from that of Earth)

The Terran Dominion possibly based on the Dominion of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

Several quotes from Star Trek such as:
The Science Vessel: "Ah...the ship.... out of danger?" (From Spock's quote in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)
The Medic:"State the nature of your medical emergency!" (From the EMH in Star Trek: Voyager) and "He's dead, Jim." (From Dr McCoy in Star Trek)
The Battlecruiser: "I really have to go...number one." (Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation), "Hailing frequencies open" (Commander Nyota Uhura, Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan), "Make it happen." (Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation) and "Engage!" (Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation)
The Corsair: "It is a good day to die!" (Klingon Star Trek) and "Zefram Cochrane, is that you?" (Reference to the inventor of warp flight, Zefram Cochrane)
Arbiter: "Duras." (Reference to the Klingon clan of Duras in Star Trek) and "Gowron" (Reference to Gowron Klingon Chancellor in Star Trek: The Next Generation)

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

haha i love how this game has been out for 10 years and i still learn something new about it every day.

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

i know eh!?
since the story isnt just straight forward and the end + some BS in the end lol
and it's also pretty cool how blizzard characterises every single unit in terms of strategy, story, ai, behaviour etc etc just little tiny difference here and there

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

They neglected to do that in WC3...

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Hmm, I wonder...could it be argued, that the story for StarCraft was perhaps more complete from the beginning?...I remember when I bought the game back in '98, that the game came with a fair-sized manual, with quite a lot of background story for the universe itself, units, factions, and such...

I never got into PC gaming as early as either Warcraft I or II, so I'm not sure about this argument, but it seemed like they changed some of storyline here and there; and added quite a lot per Warcraft III. Perhaps they didn't realise what they got as early as Warcraft I. Or just didn't have the possibilities, technological, financial, and otherwise...

Diablo I came with a fair booklet as well, as far as I recall...with some legends and myths from the universe they were trying to create...

My point here being that StarCraft almost seemed complete from the first; and that is perhaps one of the things that makes it so compelling...

- Annatar

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Concreteasflesh's story brought a tear to my eye. So touching. :bigcry:

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Wow guys, y'all going deep into this I see. I don't think is has so much to do with WW2 (though the analogy was great and well worked out), or Roman times (the analogy didn't reallyt work out, the Greeks dominated first, then got beat up the Romans and eventually Rome fell to barbarians, all over soem 3000? years...) Going on, I think the races are more tied to strategy elements.
They all contrast;

Zerg: Weak alone, yet cheap, fast and easy to create en masse,
Terran: Weak alone, yet very strong when supported, with a middle-level cost.
Protoss: Strong even in small numbers, adaptible and costly.

(Some examples: A Marine can easily get beaten by two lings, but when you add a medic, you suddenly have a walking fortress. Siege tanks are hopeless vs close range, yet when you have say Goliaths protecting them, enemy ground advances crumble. Protoss adaptability: Zealots don't need numbers or support to succeed, they can really just attack anything. Zerg often needs backup, Terran needs support.)

This is the essence of the strategy. Most games have something similar to this.

 

Re: “The feel of the game”?

Naturally, the mechanics are - and should be - an important part of any strategy game. But only when wrapped in a good story drawing on many different elements and references like those brought up in this thread does a game gain that immersive quality which StarCraft had.

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

I don't think paragon and I were necessarily stating that we thought that Starcraft was based on historical events; rather that the strategies used throughout military history are used in Starcraft, and that races in Starcraft can be compared to specific nations during past conflicts.

I still have the booklet from the original Starcraft. I think I got just as much enjoyment reading it from cover to cover as I did playing the game. The back-stories and descriptions are so interesting that they just suck me in. I did the same thing with the manual for Age of Empires 2, brushing up on the history and evolution of different strategies and military developments through time.

For instance: Did you know that during the height of their power the Chinese developed a semi-automatic crossbow?

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Just like to add - in accordance with Zoot's last post, that I might have given the impression that I did not notice or care about the game mechanics and dynamics. Obviously they're fundamental in the game's initial success and longevity...
It just works immensely together with that phenomenal backstory...

I'm familiar with that experience with the booklet, Nikzad...sadly, I do not have it in my grasp anymore...I recently had to buy the game again since I by accident threw away my CD-key...it was a low-cost edition I bought this time around, and it did not come with the original booklet...luckily I've managed to follow some links from this site (from several posts that is), so I could immerse myself in backstory, units, factions, heroes, myth, all over again... ;D

And no, Nikzad...I did not know much about chinese weaponry development, let alone that

- Annatar

 

Re: “The feel of the game”?

:O it wasnt a mongolian creation? KNEW IT HAH IN YO FACE! =D
did you know zergs actually CAN stand a chance in small numbers? depends on selection hehe....

you might think WTF HOW!? ask savior

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

Was that in response to my comment about the Chinese crossbows? if so, it was the Chinese, but the Mongolians pioneered the use of stirrups on saddles. Once started using these they could put their feet in them, turn around, and shoot pursuing enemies with their bows and arrows. That's why the unique unit for the Mongolians in AoE2 was the Mangudai, a special horse archer. It was a revolutionary tactic, as it made retreats more than just a turkey shoot for the pursuers. Mongolians were sick raiders...

 

Re: “The feel of the game�

They also had a MASSIVE navy of MASSIVE ships that made European ships look like rowboats. They stretched out to Africa and Australia except they became very isolationist after that emperor died and they burned their own fleet and forbid sailing. Quite possibly making them the dumbest people in history. This was in the late 1300s or early 1400s. They would have eventually made it to America way before Columbus or any other Europeans.