The fate of the Ultralisk...

Yes but in the case of simply trading hp for hp, I'd have to say ultralisk is getting the higher end of the bargain....

 

Indeed, the Ultralisk would be losing 1 HP per every 2 HP dealt to an opponent, plus the ability would not be one of those forever things, there would be a timer cooldown, all it needs is some tweaking to ensure it's feasible? Alternatively, a high HP (remember an Ultralisk cannot attack air, it would be highly susceptible to air attacks), could compensate for the loss dealt.

Also, groups of Ultralisks performing this ability in groups would have the damage dealt to them transferred accordingly, maybe even having less damage inflicted to them based on the fact that they're attacking in packs?

 

Well not really needed, since the original problem was that the ultralisks only have hp and they're not doing enough damage to boot, so if they could trade their hp for offensive capabilities then that's already a step up from what they were doing originally. What I am not sure of is how to explain why stomping on the ground would hurt the ultralisk, more over, if it would damage friendly units around it. It's not magic in the world of starcraft, and something like stomp is hardly technologically advanced enough to be selective about who it is damaging with a stomp.

 

Ultralisk simply need bonus life regen (coupled with their armour upgrade bonus). I mean it's got the same regeneration value for zergling to ultralisk..so a 50 hp ultralisk takes too damn long to get back to 400. If no body else likes the cannibalize mechanism..then just up the rate.

They'll be worth protecting instead of tossing em and letting em die for the other zergs to get through.

If the ultralisk had a "priority pathing" where it could clear through crowds easier (as well as make allied units move aside for it...that would help too.

 

Life regen? This is starcraft, just how much regen would one need to make an ultralisk worth its weight in resources? Units die fast and they are created just as fast, I highly doubt any pro player's going to pull ultralisks back to wait for them to regen... They aren't ghouls you know?

 

Melee splash is already taken care of by lurkers, it will be redundant.  Lurkers already take care of killing off small units very well.  Handing that role over to ultras when lurks had no problems doing it is like fixing what aint broken.

Ultras need not be made into furious killing machines because that is not their role.  But the main problem with them was that there was little incentive to get them other than to let them die first.  Ultras need to bring something else to the Zerg table and contribute to the Zerg army on a whole outside of higher direct damage output.

On the topic of regen, it's actually part of SC game design from the get-go.  The more skilled a player, the less likely to just throw away units.  Preserving your units to live as long as they can has always made a difference in SC and is what seperates skilled players from massers at the most basic level.  I've killed two marines with two lings from an early scouting confrontation before.

You don't pull back ultras for a different reason.  Having them die at the frontlines is the reason you get them in the first place.  You put them up there to die to buy you a window of opportunity for the rest of your troops.  So no, you don't pull back ultras, but not because it's not worth to do.  Even for Zerg, ultras are hardly a die fast make fast unit, they're on the top of our tech tree after all.

 

Of course they are! Just look at their presence on the tech tree of the Zerg, like the 2nd last place along with Defilers, plus given they're major cost in resources, you let them attack, do their part in kills, then retreat them to safety, it's much better than letting them die and having all that resource spent in making them lost.

 

How would you be able to pull an Ultralisk from the frontline once your army is clogging up the entrance? Remy has been giving some good points, yet some still contend them.

 

Preserving units are good for units like zerglings and hydras because regeneration is not too far off for their max hp. Ultralisk would require a very long time to heal, and it's almost impossible for any ultralisk to recover significantly enough to make it worthwhile, not when retreat usually means giving up a few units to die anyway.

Ultras having cleave is not to fulfill a role of aoe damage, it's simply to boost their overall offensive worth. No matter what you use, the only thing enabling them to live longer than a few seconds is swarm. But since swarm's aoe is fairly small, all one has to do is back up a little bit. What you do with that little bit of time between you casting the swarm and the withdraw of units from under it is what's important, and lurker's relocation takes much too long. Lurkers is much harder to use for offensive than ultralisks, and now with better interface, sci vessel massacring fields of lurker's is easier than ever. If ultralisks gets a heightened boost in offensive power, they would be able to tear through terran marines so they could actually damage the damned annoying siege tanks at last.

 

yeah, and that way they have more of a role then "die so the rest of our lings can get to them"

 

Offensive lurkering has already become one of the basic requirement of playing Zerg effectively.  It's your oppoent's job to make it as annoying for you as possible to properly position lurks.  And it's our job to do it no matter how annoying they make it for us.

It's quite the opposite on how you described the worth of ultras in terms of unit preservation.  If retreating ultras was an option, then it is worth more to retreat ultras than lings or hydras.

Even if you get lings and hydras back to full health, their max life pool is too low, it stops at 35 and 80 even if you had time for more.  If the situation required that you get ultras in the first place, it is because the max HPs of lings and hydras are not sufficient.  Read my opening post on "units that sucked," it is explained there.

1 HP is 1 HP no matter how much more you got to go til you hit full health.  The fact that ultras have a larger pool to store it all in one place is what gives them their worth.

Marines aren't the problem in tank heavy situations for Zerg, it's the tanks themselves.  Having ultras do splash damage doesn't help in this situation as tanks are usually not tightly packed anyway.  I'm not saying my ideas are the best because they certainly are not.  However, letting ultras help your army take down each tank faster before they melt to tank splash will be more valuable in this situation.  It goes along with what you get ultras for anyway, but now there is added incentive to justify their production.

 

yeah i read that whole first post. interesting points you bring up

 

Wow, I'm impressed. I didn't think too many people actually read that whole thing. I have a serious problem with keeping my posts short for some reason. I just can't do it for the life of me.

 

it was pretty interesting, kept me occupied for a while. how much time do spend on "the math of starcraft"?

 

How much time do I spend on the math of SC? Was that what you were asking?

Back then when I was starting to get really heavy into SC, I memorized all stats for every single unit in the game for all races. I mean cost, HP, attack range, spell area, everything, even things like build time. I used to be human SC encyclopedia for all my friends. Now I'm older, married, have a son, and can't remember things as well LOL.

 

well you still do a damn fine job on some of these posts

 

With all these interesting ideas being brought up on how to change the ultralisk (most of them coming from WC3 abilities) I think it would be best to ditch the ultralisk altogether and make a new unit. A good unit. A scary motherfucker.

 

so something that actually does its job?

 

yes that would be the main idea.

 

That's what I've always wanted, even before the announcement of SC2. I really want to be surprised with something badass. Hell, it's about time for that too. They should even name it just that, Zerg Scary Motherf**ker. OMG it's a swarm of SMFs!!!

Oh hey, even this forum is powered by Scary Motherf**kers. It says right at the bottom. How silly of me to have missed that.