Terran Predator, is it even necessary?

Since the terran doesn't have many invisibility early on, the Protoss would be free to jump to air units. If you don't have predators to defend yourself, you're gone. That's what they're for: protecting against Protoss.

 

or zerg... whichever. I mean they are pretty quick to getting air units too, but you are right... it's a good counter against the protoss. Especially when the phase prisms become transporters.

 

I'm still not convinced. I always used marines and missiles to defend my base early on from air attacks, and that worked just fine. Besides, if the screenshot is anything to go by, it won't last very long under fire (low health). Worse, if it really is an early game only unit, than it's effectiveness is limited even more. That worries me. Shooting down enemy fire is cool, but I want to know how effectively it does that. In other words, does it stop only missiles or lasers and missiles? Can it stop Ground AA, Air AA or both? Can it stop air to ground attacks?

If it doesn't stop a lot of shots, from a lot of places, than it's trash. After all, not getting hit half the time doesn't kill the enemy. And with only a little health, it wouldn't take too many shots to bring one down. On top of all that, bulk anti-AA exclusive is a huge waste of money, and more importantly, time. I would much prefer to both upgrade my marines and use them, or use the viking.

In short, to many things can be wrong for me to believe the predator is worth it. So until it proves its effectiveness, I'm with Remy.

 

If it's meant for defense, I bet it's HP is not the problem. And ground defense cannot cover a big area, because turrets are immobile, and marines can't shift from side to side of the base so easily. I still agree with you that Predator must remain as aerial defense, in order to keep your forces in the air for longer, and not as an anti-raid unit. In later game I think that's what it will be for: to work together with Nomads in defending/healing the vikings (banshees can just go invisible).

 

While im not how effective it would be i see the predator as more of a shield for heavy air units like Battlecruisers so they dont get destroyed right away from focused AA while the predators AA attack is more of something else it can do while not acting like a shield.

 

Remy, I understand what you are saying but like I have mentioned this isn't Starcraft 1, this is Starcraft 2 a new game with new gameplay elements and doesn't nessicarly have to be exactly like the first. Also what makes the Vikings anti-air not redunent? What happens if its air attack only works on heavy armored captial ships and not very effective on lighter air? They are closer to valkyries than the Predator is, in that their ant-air was built for the same purpose. We havn't even seen it do anything yet, but yet you say its gonna turn out how valkyrive and wraith was in Starcraft 1. I'm not saying its gonna be good or bad yet either, just don't count it out yet.

 

im gonna assume that the predator is the counter for 'fast, light air', while the viking is for capital ships. i dont have anything to support this claim except for the fact that vikings destroyed the BCs in the demo.

 

- Alright I got a nice example for you... marines vs. colossus or predator vs. colossus. I put my money on the predator.

- We still don't know how fast or what it intercepts yet so you can't call the predator useless at all. I'm guessing it will stop projectiles using its intercept lasers.

- Low health? It's 100 hp. A wraith is 120 hp. It's not much different and plus the predator is cheaper by 50 minerals and 50 gas. It's a cheap, quick, anti AA. It can go to a hotspot much quicker than marines. It's an air unit not a ground unit. It's practically comapring apples to oranges.

- High cost? A predator is 100 minerals, 50 gas... barely expensive. It's cheap for a fighter. A viking I would assume is more expensive (I'm thinking 150 minerals, 100 gas)...  I know it's speculation but it's definetly more expensive than the predator.

- I really doubt that one single predator would stop a lot of shots because frankly, it's a cheap unit and having it stop most shots would imba. That's why you build more than 1... let's say 6... then it would become more effective and of course that's the case like all units. The predator isn't suppose to be an all-in-wonder. It's a freakin basic unit.

In all, I really do believe it is necessary to the Terran arsenal because they need a basic air unit that is anti-air. If we don't have it, then what unit can we use? And please don't say battlecruiser. And what is terran without an air unit that "dogfights" in the air?

And you are thinking Viking? I would have to disagree. It's made in the factory first of all and second its both a versatile ground/air unit. It's not quick and I might be assuming this but prolly has a weaker air attack than the predator, but we will see! I could be wrong but the way the unit works, I doubt it since it is not a dedicated anti air.

 

Don't worry, I wasn't even thinking the battlecruiser or the viking. To be honest, as a terran player I rarely controlled the air. But I never needed to. A few wraiths were quite sufficient for any defense I needed. But as you said, closer to six predators would be a minimum amount to take on any attacking fleets (assuming a fleet attacks in the first place). And that is where the expense comes. I don't recall saying they were individually high cost (early units aren’t). I didn't know how much it would cost. But, if it does cost 100 minerals and 50 gas, than it would take 600 minerals and 300 gas for a group of weak units that could only defend the base from an aerial attack. That's big money and a lot of time for a beginning game defense.

To be blunt, if the enemy decides to attack with ground units, the player would be very much at the end of his or her rope. And as you said indirectly, the predator is a starport unit. That means I need an entirely different structure to build them, adding more expense and time. Therefore, the cobra and marines, not the viking, or the battlecruiser, or some predators, would probably be the preferred method of fending off early air attacks. They can be used as both sword and shield, raiding the enemy or defending a base. Missiles, again, can defend a base long enough for the marines and cobras to arrive. And I like that much more than a bunch of idle air defenses, at the mercy of a few Phoenix's overload.

Yes, they do have their place as an escort unit. And having a few around the base late game may prove quite useful. But at the beginning of the game, there are better, cheaper, and most importantly, quicker options. Bet on an air assault if you wish. Hell, if you see me out there and stomp me into the ground when we play a game, feel free to say “I told you soâ€. In the mean time, I’ll stick to my humble factory toys.

P.S.
By the way, I wouldn't send either marines or predators against a colossus. By that point, I WOULD be using battlecruisers or massed Vikings (at the very least, siege tanks), or I would have already lost the game.

 

oh i didn't say 6 was the minimum. i just gave an example. If you read Neon-10's posting on Blizzcon, he took down a mothership with 3 predators (albeit the guy with the mothership was a bit dumb) but still it is an economical alternative.

You also still need to build those structures regardless. Air units no matter what race is up in the tech tree. Cobra does not attack air units... <--- oh nvm Burkid proved me wrong

I still would use predators cause they are quick and terrain doesn't matter unlike the marines that have to deal with it.

PS. Colossus doesnt attack air units. Predators are the perfect counter. Marines get owned. Battlecruisers are soo expensive and massed vikings? Waaay too expensive. You need just a few predators and you are good to go!

 

actually, cobras can attack air. that was revealed a while ago.

i think every combat air unit is perfect for killing colossi lol.

i wonder if their is a 'guard' command, because if there is, id get 7-8 predators in intercept form and have them guard my BCs/Vikings, then with nomads defensive matrix field and repair, it would be very difficult for that fleet to go down.

 

A guard command would greatly improve their use. I hope that does get added.

 

eh we still don't really know the attack values of either the cobra or the predator. But I do know is that if you are going against let's say a Banshee, Colossus, Mothership, or even a Carrier (we don't know yet about the air shields), I'd go for the Predator in an instant because frankly these units destroy ground units like they are nothing.

 

If you see any of those units in the early game, consider yourself @^#$!* and your opponent a cheater...

In the later game, maybe. We'll have to see how it stacks against the viking.

 

How does the predator attack ? Like a Wraith's ground lazer only vs air?

And i have a feeling that the predator might be hunting projectiles more than attacking air or just as much. It switches from defense to offense which is cool in my book. Im just wondering if its going to do anything with ground based projectiles, or maybe just GTA and not GTG

 

Yes, I think it's attack formation is only so it's not yet another terran air unit that doesn't attack air. Imagine relying on BCs or vikings for air-air? In the end, I think we'll have that, but at least allow the predator to defend itself in case it needs! lol An only defensive air-unit would make it underused and vulnerable. That's what I think.

 

Here's a better pic for the predater in normal form (top right corner)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sc2armory/1025864438/in/set-72157601213606904/
Edit:- the link should now

 

i cant see the picture.

 

Because Vikes have a presumably wider range of application, where as any dedicated pure AA is more specialized. When you can use something that is generally good to also take care of air moderately well, that makes the more specialized without another use redundant. It is not the other way around.

You are wrong. Valkyrie(along with corsair and devourer, the BW added air superiority support units) are by design, there to counter swarms of tactical air which is wraith, scout, and muta. At the same time, valks and corsairs were weak against capital ships by design mainly because of weak individual hits vs high capital ship armor. Tactical air units are more suited to take down capital ships because not only do they have very decent air attacks anyway, they come in packages of stronger single hits, just without splash.

Viking air form is tactical air. Not only that Blizzard describes them as good vs capital ships, this confirms their similarity with wraith, at least in their role in the Air Balance Model. Valks on the other hand were, like I said, the complete opposite in that they were weak against capital ships by design. I don't think you have a clear understanding of the roles of SC1 air units.

I'm not psychic, I am merely suggesting the possibility because we have seen it happen before. Note that the topic title is in the form of a question. "Terran Predator, is it even necessary?" not "Terran Predator, that crap ain't even necessary!!!"

@ Eye_Carumba, you mentioned valk usage against carriers, you are mistaken. Not only were valks not designed to go against carriers, they were just bad investment. The fact is, unless against lower skilled opponents, you simply can not afford to invest heavily into valks as Terran, not that you really ever need to if you know how to use the rest of your units.

But we're talking about carriers, they are jokes 99% of the time. If you can micro hydras to take out carriers without even darkswarming, you won't have any trouble as Terran. There is no reason to get valks when you would already have EMP, marines, and goliaths. Even against carriers using terrain to out-range your ground, cloaked wraiths would still be the better option in that case.

And arbiters, you really don't see them too much on non-money maps. But when you do see them, doing almost non-existent valkyrie splash to the cloaked carriers would be the least of your concern. Armor is the bane of valkyrie and corsair splash damage. Valks only do 6 damage per rocket, the splash damage isn't 100%, the carrier starts with 4 armor without upgrades, you do the math.

And I'm sorry that people you play against use valks, but most people good enough do not. Unless on maps where ground movement is heavily restricted, such as island maps.

@ FlyingTiger, for your vs colossus example, I would just use the Vikes that I already have actually. Why would you get something that's AA only when you can just use what you have around that applies to everything else? Terran never was, and now more than ever definite is not, lacking in the department of general anti-air firepower.

However, based on the stats of Predator you provided(I had no idea before I read what you had btw, thanks), I think Predators will be better than Valkyries, in what they mean to Terran players. One of the main downfalls of the SC1 valkyrie was their cost. Not just the cost in resources, but the cost in food. 3 supply for something that was AA ONLY and nothing else was absurd, especially for Terran specifically. Since the Preds already have reduced supply and cost, that's already a better start than Valks. And with the projectile intercepting ability, their role could be very unique, beyond the standard dedicated AA firepower. Things are looking up... but not for the Nomad unit model...