Terran Jackal

You want to remove two new units to bring back two old ones? Don't get me wrong, I'm all against the Jackal, but removing it and the Marauder to bring back the Vulture and Firebats would just turn the Terran into a 3D StarCraft1 team, which isn't supposed to be. To have a sequel old units will need to be cut and new units will need to be added, no matter how popular the old units were. Instead of cutting new and adding old units, why not just scrap the Jackal and replace it with a new unit?

 

In that case I will create a sub-topic to speculate upon a new Jackal.

 

To replace old units, we'd still have the Nomad, Banshee, Viking, Thor, Reaper.
And some of the old units are being mixed up.

So I'd think if my idea were ever to be followed through, it'd be fine. Hopefully.
D:

 

Having five new units wouldn't be something to brag about. That's basically an expansion, not a sequel. The Protoss, being the most completed team at the moment, have eight new units being the Stalker, Immortal, Nullifier, Colossus, Phase Prism, Phoenix, Warp Ray and Mothership, while only retaining, seven of their old units which are the Probe, Zealot, High and Dark Templar, Archon, Observer and the Carrier. Also, that's including units like the Probe and Observer which really aren't very note-worthy unit, not that I'm saying they're useless or shouldn't be counted, but they're not like the others. This is what the Terran should be like. They should have about as many new units as old units. It helps retain their old feel and play style while giving us something new to muck around with.

 

I've gathered from what I've read here, that the Jackal is basically a bettered armored more mobile firebat. Its starcraft's version of "Meals on Wheels" and your doing the cooking.
I dont have a problem with how it is now. Hover or no Hover, (hover would be cool as maybe an upgrade though), i like this unit.

 

the jackal is like a firebat except it doesn't fires a projectile in a straight where as the firebat shot fire is a small area. The attack in the jackal screenshots are just substitutions for the unfinished attack.

 

so the turret spins and shoots a ring of fire?

 

nope the turret shoots a lump of metal at sublight speeds, also know as a railgun. the animation is just a sub, because BLIZZARD hasn't finished the railgun animation

 

but...... napalm.. aww man.
well in that case, yes i know what a railgun is, but flame thrower turret seems waaayyy cooler.

 

Yes it seems more plausable too. How the fuck does a projectile fly thru 5 units and leave them still standing?

 

if it was very tiny, but then how is that weapon even combat effective?

 

Because the projectile's moving at easily tens of times the speed of sound. A prototype railgun built by the US Navy fires 7 pounders at Mach 7. A railgun in 500 years will be doing much more.

 

yea, but that railgun in particular doesnt seem to do much.

 

Evolution Of The Jackal

Back in SC1, Terran had the Vulture. It was an early tier 2, light vehicle that boasted excellent mobility(fastest in the game, bar none, air included) and also was a great anti-infantry unit. But most of all, it was the Terran "high mobility harassment unit" of choice.

With the sequel, Blizzard looked for a unit to replace the Vulture's spot, and they initially introduced the Cobra. Now, please save the "OMG Cobra is not the Vulture" or "this ain't SC1.5 or SC1-3D" arguments. The Cobra replaces the Vulture not by role, but because it is the Vulture tech wise. Tech dictates timing, when a unit comes into a game.

While the Cobra functioned very differently from the Vulture, it still kept to the important focus on mobility. The Cobra had the ability to attack the enemy independent of its movement, so it could shoot while moving constantly. This was a brand new(to SC) mechanic that was very cool, interesting, and unique.

However, there was one important design flaw with the Cobra, it was designated as an anti-armored unit. This went completely against the Cobra's mechanic, and defeated the purpose of being able to move-and-shoot. This role that Blizzard assigned to the Cobra made it redundant as the Siege Tank already took care of anti-armored, but at the same time, Terran remained lacking of a dedicated anti-infantry unit at around late tier 1 to early tier 2 timing.

This was back around when we were to submit our first monthly report. A few of us were aware of the Cobra's design flaw and more importantly, the Terran's need of a dedicated anti-infantry unit at early mid-game. I brought it up in the Hyperion, and I believe it was submitted to Blizzard. Some possbile solutions were discussed such as giving reapers a flamethrower upgrade or making the viking GtG heavily focused as anti-infantry.

Ultimately, Blizzard didn't choose the go with any easy fix. They changed the Cobra and gave it an electrical attack that slowed enemy units. Long story short, the Cobra was axed. Blizzard wanted "innovating," "different," and "brand new," both because it's SC2 and to differentiate it from the Vulture. This is understandable and commendable, but Blizzard's stubbornness to label the Cobra as anti-armored meant that the Cobra was doomed even from the beginning.

After the removal of the Cobra, Vulture tech remains a void. Not sure if the Marauder is supposed to help with Terran's anti-infantry(sure doesn't seem so), but evidently, Blizzard recycled Cobra's slow attack and slapped it on the Marauder in a different color.

After the Cobra, Blizzard brought in the Jackal as the next "Vulture." With the Jackal, Blizzard attempts to kill two birds with one stone. It fills the void of Vulture tech, while also taking care of anti-infantry. But just what is this Jackal really? It's a sneaky pile of recycled parts. "Bike" design in line with the Vulture and Cobra? Check. Linear AoE stolen from the Lurker? Check. The "rail gun" label that attracts gamers like flies to a pile of steamy dung? Check.

I don't know what so cool about this Jackal, it's gimmicky from the bottom up. Some might argue that the Jackal is different from the Lurker, insist even. And you're right, in a way. The Lurker is inferior, that's the only difference. Even if the Jackal's attack deal different damage or is a different attack type, those are just numbers. Number values are tweaked around all over the place, it doesn't change what something is, only how it works in relation to other numbers. The only thing mechanically different between the Jackal and the Lurker is that the Lurker needs to burrow before even attacking and that its attack itself has a very slight delay. Save for having that linear AoE attack air, what other mechanic do you think there is for Blizzard to tweak to deem the Jackal "different from the Lurker?" I sure can't think of that many.

It's great that Blizzard has finally addressed Terran's anti-infantry needs, but at what cost? One of Zerg's staples has been slaughtered. Even though the Lurker is a ranged unit(ranged melee to be accurate, but ranged nonetheless), in practice, the Lurker is a melee unit. It needs to burrow everytime it wants to attack, and unburrow(and losing its attack completely) everytime it wants to move and reposition. I suppose that's all for balance's sake. Yet, the Jackal has no such weakness. No need to burrow, instant attack, but with the same linear AoE attack mechanic.

Did I also mention as of the latest build that we know of, the Jackal is also a tier lower on the tech tree than the Lurker? I don't know what the req for the Hive is, but even leaving that out, the Lurker requires 5 tech buildings/evolutions(none of which can be done simultaneously), while the Jackal has 2. Oh, wondrous Blizzard creative magic.

I've been away from these forums for sometime. Upon returning, and checking up each of the races, Terran looked very different from when I last seen them, and I can't say that it's for the better.

I know Blizzard is working hard on making SC2 as good as it can be, and they've certainly fumbled on Terran's Vulture spot and anti-infantry for quite some time now. I commend them for their great work and efforts up to this point, but I really don't think the Jackal is it. There are better ways, I hope we will see that soon.

I also don't particularly like the Marauder. It's not the worst, but I don't think it's something Terran needs. However, that problem is complicated. I suspect that it involves the Medic, Reaper, Medivac Dropship, and perhaps the Ghost.

I don't know when and why the Marauder was added, perhaps to fill the Medic's void and supplement the Marine, but I don't think it's the right unit for Terran. I don't know when and why the Medic was removed, perhaps to make way for the Medivac Dropship. They need to either bring in more innovative units or go with what works. M&M is tried and true, Medic is the Terran's level one caster, it has a lot of room for creative design. The Medivac Dropship is a design flaw, it makes the Reapers a useless existence. But I think, and this is just my personal guess, the Ghost is what complicates things.

The Ghost is currently too good and too useful for Terran's own good IMO. It's Terran's old level 3 caster sitting at tier 1, but even better than ever. I think perhaps part of the reason Blizzard is messing with the idea of removing the Medic is because of the Ghost. They were designing the Medic to be a full fledged caster this time around, but because how good the Ghost is right now, they ended up with too much potent "caster-ness" sitting at tier 1. But since they're deep in love with their Ghost boy, they axed the Medic instead of tweaking the Ghost. Then to fill that void on the tier 1 infantry line up and to take care of healing somewhere somehow, they threw in the Marauder and the Medivac.

That's my take on how and why things are. Personally, I think it's a big mess. Hopefully we'll see some good changes soon. Terran remains the race that I have the highest hopes for based on what there is to see for now. I'm crossing my fingers.

 

Wow a post longer than ItzaHexGor
that really makes sense on some of changes for the terrans. I now see why so many people disagree with the jackal, and that it is a really cheap unit. I liked your thoughts on the medic and agree with it entirely, but what would you have BLIZZARD do with the ghost-medic-caster problem?

Anyway great post, I would power you up, but I dont think we can right now.

 

I see you are yet uninitiated to Remy's ridiculously long posts.
Some solutions to Terran's little problem I came up with:

1. Take out Reapers and put Medics back in. I'm sure most of us would hate to lose reapers, but if that's the only thing that could save 'em, go ahead, Blizzard. Do it.

2. Screw the Thor. While it doesn't have much effect on the early game, right now it's just lost. We could replace the Thor with something more useful than it is right now. Same as reapers, I'd hate to lose the Thor, but well, if that's what it takes.

3. Change the Jackal a bit. Get rid of the AOE, but give it a more powerful attack in its stead. Otherwise take it out altogether. The Banshee is available at similar tech levels and seems to be more powerful even without AOE.

 

While I completely agree with your stand on the Jackal, I don't agree with you on the Marauder or Ghost.
I feel that the Marauder is something that the Terran need. They don't have any melee units to sock up damage and the only thing they got to make up for this is the Medic. Personally, in StarCraft2, I don't think this will be enough. Bringing in a melee unit would mess up their gameplay, and having two types of healers wouldn't really work. While I agree that the Cobra's electrical slowing attack was quite horrible and realise that the Marauder uses the same mechanic, its method of portraying it is much more effective. The Marauder's impact stops units dead in their tracks. It doesn't actually slow them down, it just knocks them still for a bit. It's a great way for kiting enemy infantry and effectively keeps the Marines out of combat.
The Ghost may come in a bit early, but it's not at the top of its game at that stage. Most of its abilities come later, most notably Nuke, and it only has lesser abilities, like Snipe and Cloak, early on.

 

First of all, thanks CannonFodder, and second, please get used to my text walls. Older members know it, but you'll start seeing them more.

I think there are an infinite number of possibilities besides what Blizzard has done. Since you asked, here are some ideas, or at least how I would go about it:

Medic - I wish to see the Medic back. In turn, scrap the Dropship's healing.
Dropship - Let it slowly repair loaded mechanical units. This would sharply distinguish it from the Medic's heal, and also help with power drops.
Marauder - Scrap it. If after extensive testing, the Terran infantry is found to be lacking, and the Marauder's slowing attack is needed, simply slap it on the Medic as a low cost auto-castable ability. If Medic number vs enemy units slowed becomes an issue, simply add a small AoE to the ability.
Reaper - Merge Reaper and Firebat to become the high mobility dedicated anti-infantry of choice.
Jackal - Change it back to the Cobra mechanic of simultaneous move-and-shoot. It's a cool and unique mechanic that can also provide pro-level micro results for the less-than-pro skilled player. But instead of making it a specific anti-armored or anti-infantry, simply make it deal full and equal damage to all units(perhaps even armor negatiting attack to truly get "equal" damage). Make it attack both ground and air, with decent range. The idea is to go for a moderately decent all purpose(something that the Terran has never had, ever) unit, that could supplement the main Terran force nicely in all situations. It needs to be just a *tad* faster than the Cobra though.

Yup, that's what I'd start off with.

I concur.

Nuke? You're kidding right? It was one of the least used abilities back in SC1. You'd be hardpressed to pull it off consistently outside of low level play. The less than stellar(especially as Terran's level 3 caster, even more so compared to their level 2 caster) SC1 Ghost was partially to blame. But the opposite is also true, the Ghost sucked and wasn't a good option, because the nuke sucked.

The ability to instantly take out key enemy units(casters maybe?) under the veil of cloak doesn't sound good to you? And it's also has a decent normal attack. Still doesn't sound like he kicks ass? I'm not suggesting that the Ghost be nerfed to hell and beyond, but it certainly is damn good.

 

Remy I hope you know that I like large text walls, they make interesting reads, i was just complementing you as that was the longest post I've ever seen.

Also I'm pretty sure that BLIZZARD will do something to the nuke(level 2 nukes?) that will make it a more useful option.

 

Glad to hear that at least someone doesn't hate text walls. Not bragging or anything, but this isn't the longer. I've made posts that exceeded the character limit for a single post so I had to split it up. I don't think any of my old text walls are around anymore though.