Terran Jackal

I went to the trouble of reading your post, please go to the trouble of reading mine before replying.
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As far as StarCraft2 is concerned, the Cobra never existed. Just like the Predator, Soul Reaper, Tempest, etc. They were all scrapped. Bringing up the Cobra probably makes your argument less valid. Yes, it hovered, but Blizzard scrapped it and replaced it with the Jackal. The Jackal doesn’t hover. This would have been a conscious decision by Blizzard to get rid of a hover vehicle.

How is lore invented afterwards? Do you think that after they’d completed the Terran, Protoss and Zerg for StarCraft1 they’d have said, ‘Hey, wouldn’t it be awesome if we had an advanced alien race, a human race and a biological alien race?’. They wouldn’t have because lore comes first. That’s what everything is based off.

Why would my opinion change if they were hover vehicles to begin with? I’d still think it would be more logical for Terran to not focus on useless methods of propulsion and instead focus on weaponry.

They could also give the Terran ballerina warriors if they wanted to. The point is that they don’t, and for good reason.

I’ve already said that lore comes first. You’ve got to model the teams off the lore. It’s impossible the other way around. They could say that hover engines will make it travel really faster but there is no reasoning behind it, and the exact same thing could be said for a standard engine. They could say that hover engines are in fact slower than normal engines, which is why the Vulture was discontinued and replaced by the Jackal.
They didn’t say anything about the Thor, etc, being cheap, but why would they? They’re as cheap as they can be. With a hover vehicle, the hovering can be replaced by wheels to reduce cost and have it still working as it did before. Not much can be done with the Marines, Thors and Battlecruisers.

Again, lore comes first. Who’s to say that they’re not expensive in the StarCraft universe? Why else wouldn’t they have them on their Siege Tanks, etc? If it’s cheap for them to make hover engines, imagine how much cheaper a normal engine would be. They still accomplish the exact same task, while wheels are cheaper and more stable. Also, there are already plenty of examples of them being more than they used to be.

How are they? They’d probably be less efficient because not only do they have to focus on forwards momentum, but they have to focus on keeping the vehicle off the ground as well as keeping it from tipping over. If it leaned even the slightest bit in the wrong direction, it could easily spiral out of control. It’s so unstable, just suspended in the air like that. A normal bike would be much more stable because it’s always in firm contact with the ground. You’re saying it’s just as practical or even more so but you’re only mentioning speed. Speed has nothing to do with practicability. There isn’t even anything to say that hovering will always be faster than wheels.

I never said they were poor, I just said they’d have to ration their supplies. If that means no hover engines, so be it. They should be putting their funding into new and more powerful weaponry, not into hover bikes.

Each Jackal would definitely need more than two hover engines. They’d need some to hold them up, others to turn, some out the sides, some for increasing stability, others for absorbing recoil, etc. Also, hover engines wouldn’t help you in battle. They might possibly have a chance at helping with speed, but they’d be incredibly unstable.

First off, no-one said anything about powersuits being just as expensive as hover engines. Secondly, hover engines are not requirements. Powersuits are. If you sent a squadron of unsuited Terran Marines into combat, they’d be torn to shreds in a flash. They need their powersuits to survive as long as they do, Jackals do not need hover engines to be fast. Which one would you discontinue first?
Also, the vehicles in the cinematics aren’t hovering, they’re flying. There’s a big difference. It takes a lot more energy to have something hover just off the ground than to have it fly through the air. Also, these vehicles aren’t in battle situations. For example, you see people riding motorbikes today, but that doesn’t mean they’d be effective in the army. Lastly, those vehicles belong to people, not the army. It’s like how if Earth was invaded, it’d be extremely hard to ration supplies and resources amongst every last soldier, but that doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be some rich snob who’s able to buy himself a mansion.

It was you were talking about costs. Each of the Thors, Goliaths, Siege Tanks, etc, do cost a lot, but there aren’t any useless pieces of mechanics that can be taken out. A hovering Jackal might not be more expensive than a Siege Tank, but there really doesn’t help your argument. A hovering Jackal would be more expensive than a normal Jackal, and both would have the exact same amount of firepower, armour, etc. Saying that a Siege Tank is more expensive is useless. It’s like saying that a Thor is more expensive than a Marine so the Marine deserves to have hover shoes, espresso machines, back massagers, etc. It doesn’t work like that.
My point was that not only would Jackals need hover engines, but they’d also need the better armour and weaponry. The entire hover Jackal wouldn’t cost as much as a powersuit. Jackals are already more expensive, so why add the cost of a powersuit on to that?

Again, lore cannot come afterwards. The units need to me based on something. That something is the lore. The lore comes first. It’s impossible to create a unit with no lore behind it. As it’s being made you’ll be thinking to yourself, ‘yeah, I can make it looks like this, maybe I can add this, or remove that so it’ll be able to do this’, etc. Lore does not come afterwards.

If you’ve seen better science fiction and aren’t happy with it in StarCraft2, then stop playing. Also, if you’re having trouble seeing that StarCraft2 is in fact science fiction, then I’d cut down on the computer games.

(In future, please don’t quote that much and then only comment on one part of it.)
It’s all relative. Terran are less teched than Protoss and biologically inferior to Zerg, so why would they even waste a single cent on their methods of transportation?

‘It’s the FUTURE’ is such a nothing statement. So what? You don’t think that there will still be restraints placed on races in the future? That somehow people will be able to do anything with absolutely no consequences? This is not the case. Also, who's to say that 'in the future' they haven't been able to invent an incredibly cheap, fast, fuel efficient, powerful, etc, etc, etc, normal engine? Afterall, 'it's the future'. Maybe they could have built an engine the size of a rat that is able to travel at 1, 000 km/h for eighteen days on a thimble of melon juice? I'm definitely not saying that this is the case, but it could be, just like how it could be true that hover engines are faster. Just because it's in the future, it doesn't mean that we can throw any sense of realism out the door.
You repeatedly say that a hover engine is practical but you never have anything to back yourself up. Future or not, it needs to make sense. Again, a hover engine is extremely unstable and can easily be thrown off balance. They wouldn’t be ideal in a battle scenario. Normal engines and wheels, on the other hand, would. They always have friction acting on their side. If something slams into a normal Jackal, it might slide back a bit, but that’d be all. If someone does the same with a hovering Jackal, suddenly it would be tipped off centre making all of its hover engines face in the wrong direction, pushing it that way. Now that the centre of gravity is not aligned, and the jets are pushing in the wrong direction, it’ll tip over on its side. It’d be similar to two boxers fighting, and one of them is standing on one leg. As soon as the one legged boxer hits his opponent, he’ll fall over backwards, and the same goes for if he gets hit. Normal Jackals with wheels will always have friction with the ground and a low centre of gravity. A hovering Jackal wouldn’t ever have friction with the ground and would have a higher centre of gravity.

You saying that, is just like me saying this:
Jackal with wheels. Cost - $200 dollars. Movement speed - 5. (25% chance of outrunning enemies)
Jackal with hover engines. Cost - $600. Movement speed – still 5 (still a 25% chance of outrunning enemies)
See how it gets us nowhere? We don’t know the costs, and don’t know the specifications. Why make them up purely to back up our arguments with falsities?

Who’s to say that a normal bike couldn’t be just as fast? After all, 'it's the future'.
Also, just because something doesn’t look expensive, it doesn’t mean that it’s not.
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We should try and keep these shorter in future.

 

If Banshees don't have splash, then they could get machineguns! Wouldn't that be great?
When I looked at the new Zerg pictures it looked like the Jackals lighted the Zerglings!

 

After that, you used

as an argument.

 

Changed. Thanks for picking up on that.

 

i like how it looks... i would say this comment is out of place but its in the terran jackal thread

 

*yes but the thing is, all were originaly plan to be included. meaning everything are good to go and are already back up by lore. OR... blizz had them all(cut units) in mind with or without lore supporting them (meaning unit creation etc is possible before any lore, the details are all over this post).

so most of these scrapped units are justifiable enough to be included specially just a simple hovering mechanic for the terran. the soul hunter was just not good enough since it had a bad model and attack and skateboards. but the electric lfe stealing attack was makeable enough provided if it has a justifiable lore. all are good, and is not exxagerated lorewise like terran will have a iron man like unit etc. but the axed units are just lacking somehow (but not hover vehicles for sure!). they had to pick, hover or wheels? blizz thought lets try wheels coz it will be the first for the terran looks badass too just like the warthog in halo. <-just a sample on how i think the devs get ideas on creating units the first time (im sure all of us do the same thing). and then see if it is good for the lore.

wheels, hover mechanics, lasers, tanks, mechs, etc unit can be thought of easily if you want to make units for a game without having yet the lore coz these are all basic sci fi war vehicles.

* im talking about the units creation / model not the story lore etc.

ok in sc1. ok they have the terrans, ofcourse they will thought of units that would fit them without really officialy backing it up with the terran lore yet. the basic sci fi vehicle military (yes that include hovering vehicles)are automatically can be think of and included without even a lore backing it up since the terran are human and military like. tanks, hover vehicles(<-just make it not sleek like) can easily be terran like (why the vulture made it).


goliath (mech) - basic in a sci fi setting, blizz thought they need to include one, having or not having the lore yet obviously.

its possible to create a unit concept first without the lore behind it. another example would be the tripod collosus. the lore was obviously made afterwards blizz thought of "devs: sc2, toss needs some new toys...how about a tripod robot for the toss, just like in war of the worlds, most rts have them and they look awesome and more high tech alien like, the toss should have this, ok samwise design a toss inspired tripod..ok here i present the protoss colosus." ^^

then the lore behind is just automatic, uhmm... now the toss after losing many in broodwar created an advance robotic vehicle to help them destroy their enemies etc.

that goes for the tanks and mechs etc as well. and hover vehicle is just a basic sci fi unit (just like the tripod colossus) you can think of it right away as a possible unit for the terran without reasoning it behind lore yet. so its possible obviously.

and its not overthetop like the terran velerina or ironman or gundam mech or marine with energy shields etc.. which are NOT basic(since not all sci fi human factiosn are advance like the terran) sci fi units to be included for the terran. these are the units you actually need the lore first for them to be included.

all others like hover vehicles, mechs, hovering tanks, etc... are automatic if you know what i mean.

so a hovering jackal? yes.

*hover engines makes things faster obviously. check out the magnetic bullet train... in the future imo there wont be wheels for train and cars. everything floats and travels fast. if there are still wheels etc, they are not practical anymore considering the future tech is so advance making hover or flying engines etc so easy to be made and possibly cheap too bcoz of uver advance research and tech (this can be applied for the terran having hover jackal /vulture instead than a wheeled buggy). the usefullness of hover mechanics is more than enough for its actual cost.

*siege tanks or any track tanks have another purpose.. to crash smaller things below them and in sci fi or the future tracks tanks are still practical and usefull bcoz they can flanten things below them more effectively than a hover tank.

and no they dont accomplish the same task. fast hover vehicles has the advantage in speed etc.

hover not stable? lets put present realistic physics aside since its a scifi futuristic vehicle. the future or better yet sci fi future has advance tech for hoverin mechanics not just an ordinary rotor that is not stable. it can be stable since they use SCI FI magnetic force pulse electromagnetic physic engine balance enhancing engines and so oN that will never exist in real life or in the real life future.

*unstable? out of contorl? like i said its tech and mechanics is soo advance making it stable and 10x flexible that we dont even know how, well it doesn't matter since its sci fi. just like the mechs or better yet the gundams which are cockpit controled but still moves and fights like hell.

*if it gives you better performance and advantages like speed and yet affordable enough then its practical to buy or make it.

*ok lets not talk about the funds etc or terran lore first. since i already said above that the jackal can either have hover engines or wheels. its just blizz gave it wheels and im sure the terran lore is not all the reason why. bcoz like i said above again, its bcoz of many reasons, like wheels can make it look badass etc.

so i dont want to talk about terran lore with regard to why the jackal got wheels bcoz i already prove that unit concept can be made first without having a lore about it yet.

and the scv hovers right? they should have went for wheel vehicles that has fork clip on them to gather minerals and be terran practical. but no! and im sure there isn't even an important lore behind it (scv having hover engines on their back). the design of the scv was obviously PREFERENCIAL made..and that imo also was the main factor why the jackal got in with wheels.not bcoz terran is practical etc. it is just perfect lore (wheel=practical)but the lore came after or simultaneously with the unit creation. but having hover engine can also be semi practical or simply can have a different lore like hover=speed without even talking about its expense etc.

*ok more terran lore and being practical talks here. ok, i would just like to point out how creation of units are made..(jackal with wheels or hover engines). its blizzard decision and like i said many times it could only be a personal preference since hover mechanics are already proven terran like(vulture/its not really over the top high tech or expensive like the viking etc./also has advantages etc./and bcoz they can obviousl afford it).

ok, lets try wheeled vehicles for the terran...or how about a revamp hovering vulture or cobra?... lets go with the wheels. xp

hovering car.. or flying car. which is more expensive or energ consuming? IMO flying cars since they are more "high tech". lets forget energy consuming since starcraft is sci fi, mabe the terran has already invented a device or chemical or technology that reduce energy consumption. xp

" A hovering Jackal might not be more expensive than a Siege Tank, but there really doesn’t help your argument." it can... meaning they can be included and is very usefull.

' Saying that a Siege Tank is more expensive is useless. It’s like saying that a Thor is more expensive than a Marine so the Marine deserves to have hover shoes, espresso machines, back massagers, etc. It doesn’t work like that." no this was not point. if they can easily have tanks why not a hovering jackal, it has more speed than a wheeled jackal.

this is going nowhere coz we are back at terran lore again making it the basis for why the terran jackal got wheels. but which is not really my point, what im saying is the jackal got wheels bcoz blizzard made them that way bcoz for other reasons (like lets try this or looks badass) and not the lore coz hovering vehicles can surely be included lorewise if blizz picked them.

*yes they are based on something... but military SCI FI vehicles are automatic (you just need to add or change details about them, like wheels or hover engines).

i like and wil play starcraft 2 and i expect it to be better and hardcore sci fi. xp

*i just think the terran lore is being exageratedly use up to the point that it gets wrong. just bcoz hovers looks high tech etc...then its not terran. well its NOT high tech. and when i talk about the future, it means hover mechanics is just basic etc no matter if the human faction is poor on resources. its sci fi stuffs are already been research and experimented to make hovering cheap etc. if you think realisticaly in the rpesent then you will think of hovering as something unusual etc... which is NOT.

vulture?

but lets just stick with what we usually or realistically percieve of a sci fi future. hover engines = fast. normal engines = normal. wheels = below normal. xp

why make a hover engine vehicle if it is not stable in the first place? the terran got the vulture, so i means its stable and good enough in battle. most alien sci fi race have hover vehicles..why do they invent one if it is not stable or has movement limitation?

i dont know much about gravity and physics...but hovering is just a simple mechanic in a sci fi future and are usable and effective.

IMO and obviously hovering vehicles travels faster...

sorry i cant keep it short. and please dont mind much about my counter lore talk just focus on the other thing ive been saying all along which is, blizzard picked the wheels bcoz they like it better(not only bcoz it fitted much on the lore) so it means they can also go for a hovering vehicle instead(which can also have a good terran lore). xp

 

wow that might be the longest post ever...

 

lol. please bear with my english. ^^

 

Ok i think the Jackal should be hovering, it just looks so cool, and lorewise it isnt completly unreal because the vulture had it.

PS: I like the vulture
PSS: Nice long posts, but i did not bother to read it all...

 

"but lets just stick with what we usually or realistically percieve of a sci fi future. hover engines = fast. normal engines = normal. wheels = below normal. "
what does a normal engine move if it doesn't move wheels? maybe treads, but I guarantee that on basically any surface wheels will move faster than treads, treads can just carry more weight.

I just want to put this out there as someone being fairly knowledgeable about physics: hovering is an incredible waste of fuel, and highly impractical. There are already hover cars out there, and the only reason people don't drive them is because they waste too much fuel to get you anywhere. For hovering to be practical there would need to be an anti-gravity device in place, or some kind of device that puts out more power than is put in (thermodynamically impossible).

 

DE.50 after all this is in the future, and perhaps fuel" as we know it, doesnt even exist?!?!
And im pretty sure anti-graivity devices could exist in the future. And what is impossible now, does not need to be impossible in the future.

 

Well if an argument is not based on reality, like the laws of physics (for everything this is an equal and opposite reaction, and a system cannot exceed the amount of energy put into it) it can't be considered an argument. Basically science as we know would be reinvented "in the future," and I find that highly unlikely.

This is not to say that I don't like jackal as a hovercraft, it just isn't logically feasible.

 

@DE.50

i mean normal engines with wheels. lol

but its sci fi possible.

vulture / cobra?

and blizz dont even care or talk about the terran fuel consumption etc. why should we? the terran has something more than fuels and laws of physics. 8)

 

THIS IS A GAME FOR GODS SAKE!
And really, anti-gravity engines arent "unreal", it has already been possible to turn things invisble (or some are working at it atleast), with the help of some atoms.

 

Anything its possible, just the majority of things we think up are as I like to call them unpossible. Meaning not possible at the current time.
Harrier jets can hover with ease so I don't see why a little Jackal unit in the future is such a ''omg thats crazy this isnt starwars.''

 

exactly. terran can and loves to hover too you know. 8)

uhm.. vulture?

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say that not anything is possible. You can't shrink your self to microscopic size, atoms can't do that. I don't know why you guys are getting all worked up about this, physics aren't just something you can bypass, and it's not like I am arguing against the jackal as a hovercraft, it's just that in the real world it isn't likely.

 

DE.50
1. THIS IS A F****** GAME
2. zeratul11and Zergalicious can answer you this!

 

*facepalm*

I give up. This guy just needs to watch discovery channel.

 

I am sure that I watch the discovery and history channel a lot more than you do, in addition to all this stuff being part of my major...