Suggestion - New Marine Weapon

The Terran's range focus in SC2 is that they are going in a much more tactically defensive style based on range is that they don't want to exactly copy SC. The Terran have the same exact premise as in the original SC design wise early game.

In the original the first new units beyond the Marine and SCV is the Firebat/Medic from the Academy. This was to counter the initial wave melee attackers from both the Protoss and Zerg. The Firebats tanked, the Medics healed and Marines provide support from behind the lines. This provided a great way to repell enemy forces. However a copy and paste into SC2 just won't cut it.

However it is similarly mimicked in SC2, but in a much more interesting way. This time they go the route of forcing the player to think about his moves and not just throw units into one another hoping to get lucky.The Marines are supported by Marauders. The Marauders in turn along with the Marines are supported by the Reapers who can attack behind the line as well as at it.The Marauders provide not only damage, but their debuff to the enemy. The Reapers take that advantage to attack all across the line.

The two concepts seem different, but in the end are the same when boiled down. They both involve the melee attackers being prevented from assaulting the ranged attackers. The difference in SC2 is that the Terran have no flat out unit to tank them. Instead they focused on tactically destroying the enemy. Its this approach that will make the Terran appeal to a lot of people if they can be mastered. It is this approach that makes the Terran having a variety of ranged attackers acceptable.

 

That's great insight, ShdwyTemplar, but I'm not suggesting Marines get a melee attack in order to make them viable melee tank units. I'm simply saying that the same treatment the Hydralisks have already gotten in SC2--that is, that at melee range their attack animation is replaced with the apparent use of claws with zero functional gameplay difference--is a nifty aesthetic choice that would be cool for marines in the form of bayonets.

I say this because the Terran aesthetic of frontier colonies that are at odds with the policies of the united governments they answer to is an intentional throwback to the Civil War-era and antebellum South in the United States. This is the reason why the Terran government at the opening of StarCraft was called the Confederacy, even using the same flag as the Confederate States of America. It's an aesthetic used in other space opera stories as well, for example the short-lived but well-followed television show Firefly.

Since this aesthetic is already present in the SC franchise going back to the opening of SC1, the advent of bayonets as an aesthetic option for the marines seems like it would fit. And since a similar implementation has already occurred for the Hydralisk, it's not like this sort of aesthetic option is unheard of.

 

Although that wasn't directed at your comment Jake, I can say that you bring a good point of consistency in the SC universe based on the aesthetic principles of the style pool it draws from.

However the idea of a bayonet during the civil war was either for charges, close quarter combat, or if you ran out of ammo. In the SC universe only one of these things apply. It would be close quarter combat. This however partially conflicts with the idea of the Terran Marine. They are the Terran's endless pool of expendable soldiers (most being prisoners) that never run out of ammo in battle, that never live long enough in close combat, and even if they were run out of ammo in battle then it would be game over anyway.

That is the image of the Terran Marine. The idea of survivability isn't in their image and a bayonet is something that adds survivability. It just doesn't fit. It would fit if they were to follow the idea of the civil war, but the Terran Marine isn't a direct allusion to that era. Instead they are the bread and butter of an army and have expendable written all over their faces. That is why aesthetically based on your argument the bayonet itself doesn't fit.

 

How is it even remotely possible when I proved it wrong? Just because it's a theory doesn't mean that you can throw it out there and not expect a debate.

If a power suit-propelled bayonet can penetrate a shell, so can a gauss-propelled metal spike that travels at hypersonic speeds.

Also, it says on the Marine page:

Rifle > Bayonet. Case closed.

 

I didn't say that is what I thought, I said it was a possibility. Something you seem to be ignoring. In real life we invented guns, then we invented a defense for the guns. If you add a new weapon, you will try to find a defense against the weapon. This is how we work. The zerg has a human-zerg leader. They might have developed rifle proof shells to some degree. Think of those possibilitys.

Gasmaskguy, we can debate about this all we want. It won't change ether view. As you see I still have ammo left. But ShdwyTemplar's reasoning was much better than yours. He said the same (or close to it.) but from a slightly different view. This view has the realm of possibility in it. He used his reasoning, and I see why the bayonet is a terrible idea. And I now agree with him. If you missed the post, then here it is.

As you see have changed my point of view. This continuing of this debate will have no point from here on out. Why? Because it was about changing the other's view. We can begin a whole new debate on the line of "This continuing of this debate will have no point from here on out." The debate(s) will only server the purpose of changing no one's view and wasting pages and storage of this site. I rest my case.

 

It doesn't matter whether you thought that or not. You presented it as a possibility and I shot it down as a possibility. What's wrong with that?

Carapaces capable of fending off bursts of spikes traveling at hypersonic speeds designed to provide maximum penetration against all armor types, but not power armor-swung bayonets?

You changed your mind regarding the presence of the bayonet but you're still for some reason arguing the possibility of why the bayonet could be useful.

 

There's nothing wrong with that. It's just there were better more convincing ways of doing for example:

If you had put this or something close to it. You would have blown it out of the water much sooner, and with no debate.

Knives can go through bullet proof armor, but bullets can not. It is possible, but highly unlikely at those speeds to have a bullet proof shell.

I'm still arguing to tell you that I would go on if you want to go on. But as ShdwyTemplar stated, it is much better without it, than with it. Which would put out of any debate. Instead you continued it. When you could have said "I agree with you ShdwyTemplar" or some thing along those lines. That is way I'm still going, I am wanting for you to discontinue your end the debate and I would discontinue my side. But I alrighty have discontinued it from my side. I'm just continuing to keep it going until you end it. I have alrighty ended it from my side, and will continue it if you'd like. I'm just waiting for you. ShdwyTemplar has proven me wrong. The work is done. It's up to you.

 

Err uh maybe someone should get rid of wolesaleabc cause i dont think the forum wants a walking sail clerk any way

I think maybe they need a new weapon but im just thinking a bayonet is really outdated it was used in 1945 but really not since this takes place in the future think of a cooler thing like a plasma sword not as powerful as the protoss but effective dont make it rigged though

 

I think it's time for blizzard to stop implementing new features (excepted maybe for zergs) and start balancing the stats of the Terran/Protoss units.

 

well, they only have so many polygons to work with. it doesn't help the marine look different from other units, and it adds a "feature" that they will never use, so screw it.

 

what if they implemented a water shell type thing.

Water is very resistant when something is going at high speeds.
has anyone whatched the Mythbusters episode where the guy dived underwater and then ppl shot and the water stoped them/?

maybe they added something to the water that made it more resistant to huge impacks and not small knifes that slice much slower then a bullent from a gauess rifle.

 

it`s looks lame for a marine from space to have a bayonet or a sword....

 

@Gardian

You know what would happen if you shot at a Zerg with a water filled carapace?

It would

Leak.



Like, a lot.

 

Maybe not a bayonet. Maybe a knife for the Marine. When an enemy is far from the marine it get shot. But when it's close to him the marine could use a knife. A melee attack from the marine against the close unit. As the hydra uses the melee against close units and structures.

To be discussed.

 

haha,, hummmm if so what if it`s not a zerg?????? a ZEALOT going to attack a marine and a marine uses a knife to broke on protos shield???

 

Haven't thought about it. The zealot would just cut the marine's hand ...

 

@GMG

not if theres some surface ontop, i was meaning that it would basicly obsorb the impact.
so the count would be low impact

Example: (may be a bad example)
the immortal has a hardened shield, when something very fast and heavy hits it it blocks the damge, but say a marine hits it the bullet is a lower impact then the shield is suppost to protect so it goes through without much hard time

 

but if i`m not mistaken marine do more damage to immortal...because they are regular units or a reaper

 

What are you talking about? There's no "surface on top" if you just riddled it with holes.

Anyways, justifying a Marine bayonet by coming up with a new Zerg carapace doesn't help when there's still Protoss units around. And no, making Marines use a bayonet animation against Zerg only is not an option.

And don't compare Zerg carapaces to Protoss shields.

 

ahh finally someone understands me,,,... T_T