Start with 4 or 6 Workers?

LOL @ furrer

i2new, timing is an important factor. And we're not complaining, we're discussing and at the same time, giving feedback, which, especially considering how Blizzard is throwing ideas around aimlessly, is crucial.

And please spend more time on your posts.

 

''no... i have been on the post looking at the zerg beyond the start of the match and the people who are complaining are the guys who only use zerg for one thing. The perfectly timed zergling rush... there upset that the timing on the zerg is going to be off because of the extra miners who well make them money that they will spend faster.''

If you're refering to me, I play all races but generally play Protoss so what are you talking about?
Also if you have a problem with a post, simply reply and state why you disagree etc.
Your post has 0 value if you simply say, stop crying and move on.

 

no psionicz.

I'm saying people are stuck on old timers like the perfect 6 zergling rush when its lame. Almost every zerg play dose it and i see alot of zerg players that dont have a successful rush even tho it was timed right and suck 100% after that rush. Blizzard dosent want people to buy the game, play zerg and never see a unit past the zergling. so what the timers are off. Make new ones. its not we all cant learn. I wouldnt want to spend 10 or 11 years making a game and people only end up playing the first 2 or 3 units and i'm sure blizzard wouldnt want that to happen and if they did they would make ultralisk tier 1 with a coast of 10 minerals and have 7 range and GTA.... the zerg timer will be off, learning is a +

I'm all for the extra miners as you'll need them to each others units better suited for early game combat.

 

The use of certain units is determined by the situation, and if the game is well balanced, there will be incentive to tech. What you're saying can only occur if the more advanced units are not worth to get, which is down to balancework with stats and costs.

Zerglings will dominate the field early game be it SC, SC2 or SC3, and I see nothing wrong with that.

 

I go on bnet frequently, I havn't seen a 5 pool in a while to be honest. I never said Zerg timing has changed and I want it back, I have compared their build que/time to Protoss and Terran. If the stronger Protoss can get enough Zealots to kill the Zerg because the new change favours the Protoss theres obviously a problems ince Zerg are meant to be the fast ones. I'm not saying that is the case but a mere possibility since it looked that way on the videos.

 

I have no problem with zerglings being strong in numbers but i mean the use of just them in SC2 from what i see is not going to cut it, Mabey there imbalanced right now who knows, buti can tell you this much if u dont use all the units like you should and in the saviors matches he didn't he wouldnt of lost so bad, but then again the zerg just came out icant expect him to be a master of sc2 already and its not even out.

And Psionics i think blizzard is aiming for zerg to be the fastest techers too. If u noticed the upgrades are merged so i'm taling it that speeding up the upgrades on zerg is the new big Whoop here. This is why i'm saying the higher tier units that might be able to be reacher faster with the increased miners is a big deal here.

 

put it this way:

more workers = more minerals = more untis/buildings

can someone please explain why this is bad i dont quite get it.

 

They think its bad because of timing...

I see it this way u dont need drones to build defence so rushing to a queen is not so bad. she only coast 100 minirals and 25 gas and the extractor is 50 minirals. with the queen u dont have to use drones for defence so its not like your losing larva there. but the first few seconds in the game are off becuase of the extra money from the miners. The way i see it some people my be trying to hard if there trying to put out units and have to wait. I see it that defence will give u the few extra seconds that you might need.

 

Stop being so narrow minded. Makes me want to flame you.
What I'm saying is the current Larva spawn time MAY NOT be able to keep up with the fast minerals. And when Protoss and Terran can que/make more buildings Zerg have to spend 300 just to get another production line meaning its harder for them to keep up in those critical early game minutes.

 

Narrow minded. I know the time for larva is not the fastest in the world. I can see that i'm saying in between the time it takes to wait for a larva you could watch your money and get another Hatchery or something.... Your just use to the same old fast zerglings at the begining of the match. That i have no problem with but its not like blizzard dosent want you to try other things which is now possible with more drones.... Like i said before whats wrong with playing defencive if your defence can get up and push out so that the enemy cant box you in. This is why blizzard made a change to the defence and not the larva timer. And even if they did change the larva timer and they might not of told us like alot of things they dont tell us about i think after testing the game a million times as they will it will get changed if its a major issue witch they havent said anything about.

 

Let's take the balance of SC as 'perfect'. In this 'perfect' setting, by the time the Zerg has 6 drones, he will have 1, at most 2 larvas ready to morph. This is just the way they work and we accept that.

In the current build of SC2, you could say the balance is 'perfect'+2 workers, when in reality, it is:
Terran: 'perfect' (4 workers) +2 workers
Protoss: 'perfect' (4 workers) +2 workers
Zerg: 'perfect' (4 workers) +2 workers +2 larva

Now even though Zerg buildings morph from larvas and thus take up production lines, they do so in SC without hindering the Zerg, so we can't even say that the extra larvas are needed for balance.

 

IM NOT USED TO ANY F****** OLD FAST ZERGLING RUSH.

I will try and put this simple.

Increased mineral intake means faster units right?

The Terran and Protoss can que up units and make more buildings to produce more units, right?

Zerg rely on one building to produce units right?

If every race is getting units faster and Zerg cannot since it costs 300 for a extra production line the Zerg are obviously at a disadvantage, meaning the only way they can survive is to defend, which is called limiting.

To clarify:

Protoss will get units faster.
Terran will get units faster.
Zerg will have to build another Hatchery to get units faster since they cannot keep up, which is a possible explaination to the Zerg players getting owned in the videos.

 

But the [production line]:[cost] ratio of the Hatchery is somewhat better than what 2 gateways/barracks have.

 

Is it really when they can multiple gate meaning they have 3-4 'larva' which produce the strongest starting units faster than the Zerg's 3 larva.
Hatch = 300 minerals - cool down after production
Gateway = 150 - one unit after another

In the long term zerg are fine, but the beginning they are vulnrable to these rushes since they can't keep up with the faster unit production since the others are also stronger.

 

in that case u need to out rush the enemy, but your saying u dont like the zergling rush but in the end thats all you'll have until you get some defence and lose buildings insted of men... And lets also add your losing buildings that didnt require a drone. The point is not to waste your larva making units that will get owned. Get a mix of building defence and units and maybe u wont have to worrie about getting pwned. And i dont think using the videos as a Fix is not a good idea cause who ever was the zerg player didnt make any units past a queen. except the one match i saw when it was zerg vs terrans.

 

I, honestly, don't see where the disadvantage to anything is. If you play a UMS game where it's, say, Lost Temple, but you have 6 peons instead of 4, the games really don't favor anybody else over another any more than it usually does. It's just like spending an extra minute in the game to produce those 2 units....

Then again, we truly won't know how it works with SCII until we see some action on it.

 

thank you cyberpitz, another who dosent mind the change.

I think we need new video of 2 players who know both thwe build( of that current time) to play so we can decide weather more miners is bad or good.

 

I also favor the change.

Psion look at it this way, the first thing every player in Sc was make 2 drones/probes/SCVs (expect for a few odd stategies) and then they would be gaining minerals as fast as the currently are in the beggining of the game in Sc2. So whats the the difference? So far the only one I see is the Zerg have 2 more larva, and I don't see how that could be a bad thing for the Zerg. Your position is that since everyone will start the game off gathering minerals the Zerg will be out-produced by stronger units because Gateways/Barracks are cheaper. But how is that any different than Sc1 30 seconds to a mintues into the game?

No race is producing any faster than they would have 30 seconds to a mintute into a Sc1 game, all Blizzard has doen by giving every race 2 additional workers is lopped off that 30 seconds to a mintue of downtime (and those few eranious strategies that attacked before before having 6 workers, but I digress).

Im am not seeing where the probelem with this change is coming from.

 

Its hard to explain, so my stance remains nuetral for now. We will have to wait, but obviously Blizzard will iron out any imbalances.
But if you want to understand what I may be saying what these:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/187369.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/188205.html

 

I watched the first (the second just wouldn't load...). Anyway, I wouldn't say the larva was the primary cause for saviors losses he just played stupid and he really didn't seem to want to try and take advantage of some of the new units. Also, the game itself is still inherently unbalanced because of all the changes and while some of that unbalance may come from the larav spawn rate its most likely a minor amongst a large group of minor that have a large overall effect. Finally I still don't see how the addition of 2 extra workers at the beggining of the game hurt the Zerg, if anything it just seems to make the game go a little faster.