StarCraft II Q&A - Batch 12

I wonder if the firebats will get the shield upgrade that the marines get. Also what will they look like I hope it isn't just a recolor of a existing unit *cough*Carrier*cough*

 

Thats a good question, but I think Firebats would need higher HP than Marines from the start otherwise they wouldn´t function. Firebats imho would need a attack upgrade so they could attack more targets other than basic infantry effectivly.

Giving them a DoT (damage over time) could work and help using the movespeed bonus from stims (I think it took me 1 Year untill I noticed that they move faster under stim).

Edit: Yes I think DoT would work best. It would change the Firebats lategame role from "Tank" to Damage Dealer with potentional for hit and run. They would deal more damage than Marines in an AoE but not really "stack" to avoid them to replace Marines. Simply name it "Napalm".

 

@ Remy , congrats. You have successfully convinced me that the Reaper could simply be the Firebat replacement as well as its intended role. But they should just have flamethrowers by default upon initial production if they're produced at the time you say they are. Late Tier 1? I'm game.

 

Terrans have vikings for mid game worker harassment, and banshees for late game harassment, why would we want another worker killer? I say frebats should come back. But Actually, there is something we are not taking in account: THE ZERG. What if zerg swarming is pushed even further? We would need a zergling stopper. That could be the firebat, with an optional upgrade to deal more AOE damage.

 

Wow...the Firebats are back. I think it would be cool to just have an upgrade for Reapers that give them dual pistol-flamethrowers. Their regular pistols didn't have a very long range anyway.

 

@ Unentschieden, I agree that the vulture's usefulness largely depended on micro, but mine laying is just one aspect of the vulture. The vulture's importance for the Terran is mainly only within a specific window of timing. It is there to help the Terran make a smoother transition to full tier 2 tech, while still able to offer a chance to put a check on the opponent's economy or reinforce the Terran's defense against timing rushes.

For a measly 75 minerals a pop, the vulture is quite the bargain shopper's toy. But more importantly, the vulture is available and useful during the window where Terran is vulnerable to timing rushes. The vulture buys you time for readying full blown siege tech while not just sitting home idly teching up. From there you can choose either to go on the offensive or use the vultures for defense. Get speed upgrade first for the fastest moving unit in the game, awesome for quick hit-and-run base raiding harassment tactics. Or get the mines first to defend better against timing rushes and units like the dragoon. I personally think the vulture rocked pretty hard in its glory days.

@ Joneagle_X, the reason why I suggested the flamethrower to be an upgrade and not a built-in design by default is because IMO that would make them too powerful. They are already excellent base raiders taking up the vulture's role of high mobility hit-and-run harassment on the enemy economy. If you give them flamethrower out the door, when they already can cliff jump and rape your workers from the backdoor, I think that will might be a problematic situation at late tier 1 for folks on the receiving end. At that point in the game, you have mostly just infantry to use to defend against it, but if you make it anti-infantry... see what I mean?

@ Lemmy, the reaper is actually the first available "worker killer" for the Terran. I personally believe that reapers will have a much larger role in raiding mineral lines than vikings in actual games. Reapers are available at lower tech, earlier on in the game when bases aren't as heavily fortified. At viking(air form researched) timing, you would likely be met with the planetary fortress, loads of phase cannons, and whatever the Zerg will have. Not to mention a much larger number of combats units. So the real question isn't if the reaper will be a worker killer, because it already is, but rather, what else would the reaper bring to the Terran table for the rest of the game besides just raiding the mineral lines.

 

@Remy Exactly. I just wanted to point out that for me 25/Mine is a acceptable price, if the Vulture would have worked like the Reaver and produced Mines in transit.

I think lategame reapers can be utilized against units that are weak against them, remember their very first appearance (against immortals)? Later you would still have the Bar, if situations appear where you could use them you can recruit them immeadiately, like finding a unprotected exe or something similar.

But we will see, the best solution would imho be that Firebats return with a proper upgrade to keep them usefull for the whole game - and Reapers too.

 

If the firebat is not back anymore, so the reaper replaces this unit. Al right. But if we give the reaper a flamethrower like for the firebat, that's ridiculous. I don't know if the reaper reminds you something. A unit in Star Wars : the Centurion !!

[img width=250 height=361]http://www.top-figurines.com/photos/article-40-ko00139.jpg[/img]

Do you remember him ? He got pistols and could fly, like the reaper.

If you really want to see flames from the reaper, so let's suggest to Blizzard to add in parallel to his blowing grenades some other grenades that, in blowing, burns the enemies ! The first grenades attack the structures, but the other grenades attack the units. SO TWO SORTS OF GRENADES FOR THE REAPER :good: :good: :good:

 

jango and boba did have flamethrowers though... perhaps the reaper will as well.

 

it's easy to solve the upgrading problem - make jet pack the upgrade, not the flamethrower. so you get normal firebats to begin with, then you can upgrade jetpacks for them.

 

Seriously the reaper is a good replacement for the firebat

 

The Reaper is not the Replacement for the Firebat. It is more comparable to the vulture. The Firebat is without a follower in it´s role, wich suggests that Terrans get something to make up for the lack of their "melee" unit. This something doesn´t have to be a new unit.

 

That something doesn't have to be an old unit that was over-specialized with very limited use. I don't think people are talking about flamethrowers for the reaper because they think reapers are supposed to be firebat replacements. At least that's not why I suggested it.

I do think something needs to pick up that role, I just think that it would be better packaged in together with one of the new units, instead of adding the firebat.

 

Guys! "We're testing a build with the Firebat" means "the Firebat is back" as much as "We're testing a build without the Firebat" means "the Firebat won't be in the game." We've known all along that Blizzard has been testing different combinations of units with different combinations of stats. We've known all along that they were willing to include or remove a unit based on testing. News that they're testing a build that includes the Firebat tells just as much as news that they're testing a build without the Firebat.

They probably either test multiple builds at once, or several builds in a small period of time. Each build does represent a possible "future" for the game, but until they release the game, or give us confirming news other than "we're still considering the unit" we don't really have any idea if the "future" we'll see is one of the ones that includes a Firebat.

 

The Reaper is like a infantry unit of Vulture as in both of their roles however Reapers are easier to kill and they are very useful due to their jump packs and they 'throw' their frags/mines to the ground
While the Vultures have to go to the selected area to place the spider mine and they are very fast and almost act a Cobra/ the Cobra act like the Vulture
The Reapers are replacing the role of the Firebat as 'Secondary' tier 1 units so they will be a optional choice to be built for base raiding but as an overall result in my calculation the Reapers are not replacing the Firebats whatsoever since the Firebats are used as very close range/close combat units and used as to destroy more amounts of units than the Marines, meanwhile the Reapers are Base raiders and simply took over the role of spider mines and they will not replace the Firebats
The why Blizzard did not put the Firebats in the game in the first place was because they said there were too much infantry units and too many choices which will be troublesome for the player but now since the people like to have the Firebats in the game, Blizzard has made the Firebats a comeback which was a good idea but it will also be a threat to take over the role as a 'Secondary' tier 1 unit...

I think i made a load of rubbish

 

Haha. Looks like another Firebat/Reaper thread to me.

Whether you knock the Reaper up with Flamethrower upgrades, have them come right out of the pen with them, or make the Reaper a Firebat that then upgrades to jetpacks....

I'm happy with any of them, but just like Remy has said a number of times, something HAS to cover the niche that the Firebat was designed for. It's just plain bad logistics for the Terran to not have some type of melee unit.

 

No, no, not melee, anti-infantry. Melee isn't as important as anti-infantry to the Terran.

 

The reapers surely fire fast enough to be a good anti infantry unit and a bunker will make up for their lack of HP in a bunker they might just be better than firebats moreso if they have normal damage instead o concussive.

 

Same difference you big lard

My point is that it needs to be a.... hmm... short-ranged AoE like the Firebats (I don't know what to categorize it as... you guys have all those silly terms ).

The point is that unless you use bunkers and waste your resources on something that increases HP but doesn't shoot back (as opposed to increasing HP slightly and increasing firepower by producing a new unit) you need something that can take out groups of enemy infantry in late Tier 1. That's exactly the production time of the Reaper, right? Bada bing, bada boom. You've got yourself an anti-infantry unit.

My only problem is that if the Reaper doesn't come stock with the Flamethrowers, how is it an effective counter to infantry?

 

They shoot really fast.  I would estimate their firing rate at at least 150% that of a marine but I want to believe it is 200%.  Thats plenty fast plus they have AoE mines

Also the reapers can kill the meleee units while they are further maybe even preventing the enemy form reachig them. Their range does counter out the low HP