Star Craft II vs Red Alert 3

theres a huge gap between the two. Red Alert 3 can't be taken seriously in the realism sense but it's a decent strategy none the less if you like that kind of stuff, especially for the younger ones. Parachuting war bears from launching cannons off a boat, get real.

 

Yes ra3 can't be taken seriously BUT ra3 have more reality then sc and because of that sc can't be taken seriously also!

Ra3 is very very good in multiplayer,there is no massing! and it requirements lots of micro because every unit have some special ability and every that ability is very important!
How i saw in sc2 videos there is also micro but they only do attack,back,attack,back and so on....
rush is kinda boring in sc2 ALL always scout whit probe and send few lvl 1 units and attack,back,attack,back...
In ra 3 you can rush in many ways,you can even rush whit your MCV in many different ways!
The problem is that people who love sc whiteout thinking will say sc2 is better,be more objective test ra3 in multiplyer,agains computer and so on....

And same whit ra2 and sc1,people who say sc1 always repeating "balance" and "3 different races" but ra3 have a LOTS more details and strategies like sc1

 

Hehe.

Sorry wlof, let me explain. Red Alert 3 turned out to be more imbalanced then the current stock market. You can design a game with tons of startegies, but it has no use without proper balance. People just keep finding those best builds for C&C game, and never look back. There is little to no stategy involved once you get the hang of it.

I fear C&C 4 will go down the same road. I mean, Crawlers? Seriously? That means no base building, and the Crawlers freaking respawn. What the hell? And the whole defensive/offensive/support system might as well have been called rock/paper/scizzors (whatev, it's late).

Hard counters, and all units can have different stats. That basically means that 1 startegy can be invented to beat everything. It's basically going to be a tech rush to the superweapons, as always.

Starcraft > everything when it comes to strategy. As for scouting with a worker right away: duh. Why wait untill getting other units? I thought that rushing was so important to you? ;p

/ow snap

 

If you choose the defensive role/perk, you get to base-build.
Since we haven't seen respawn in action I wouldn't call it crazy just yet. It's nice to still be in the game if you play a 3v3 and all three opponents rush your base (that was pretty sucky in sc).

 

This Forum or not , matters not , I am a C&C guy , my childhood was C&C , never played original starcraft but I knew about it , I was also geeking Warcraft 2 at friend back in childhood.

Red Alert 3 is certainly not in my collection , Red Alert 3 is not a game , it's EA's crap "software" with a stolen name.

EA took over after Generals ZH , and so C&C became crap , ex-westwood guys left , and most of them formed Petroglyph Games , Mark Skaggs and other 2 producers left elsewhere , but the lead designer Dustin Browder joined blizzard to lead Starcraft 2.

All clear ?!


You can also sign here if you think LAN is important in SC2 http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LANSC2

 

I think that you are wrong,I play ra3 since is released,and yet I always see something new ,
It have good balance but have few bugs,hopefully they will fix that,

"That basically means that 1 startegy can be invented to beat everything"
That is so not true,Infantry is very strong but can be crushed and so on...everything have counter and you are wrong about superweapons,nobody use super weapon in multiplayer not even in c&c3.
Ra 3 have lots of strategy,I was reading some posts here and I was very funny like kirow mass...common :wacko: Kirov is tier 3 unit and it cost 2000,that include and Apocalypse tanks.

And for C&C 4,time will tell,I love old system but we will see how it is gonna turn up.

 

@GMG
Well, it's not really base building if there are only defensive buildings involved.

As for the rushing thing: if 3 players rush you, then where are your team mates haning out? I know it's hard to respond to an attack that fast, but quickly countering in those situations is awesome. Ever played that round map? Kinda forgot the name, but it had "wheel" or something in it. So awesome.

@wlof
If you see nobody using superweapons in a C&C game, they you're playing against noobs. Seriously. Can't even begin to count the amount of matches I played as a superweapons general in Zero Hour. Team mates defending me, and I take out the opponents one by one. Easy win.

All we had to do was pack our bases close together, get the money generating units, and build superweapons. Stopping the enemy was incredibly easy. Just force fire those mini nuke launchers and napalm units at bottlenecks and put superweapon general turrets behind it.

There's an easy win method like this for each C&C game since Generals, possibly even since Yuri's Revenge. The only way to counter is by doing exactly the same. That eventually leads to matches where both teams only have a few infantry units left, and the hit & run crap happens. That's just no fun at all.

As for C&C 4, gaining xp for all units is going to result in 1 tactic being used. Believe me. Every rts game has in some way failed when trying this, except for Warcraft 3. Kinda sad, since Warcraft 3 more or less introduced the concept.

Not enough proof yet that a crapload of possibilities just isn't good enough without balance? One word then: pokemon.

/thread

 

And again you are wrong...nobody use super weapon in c&c3 and ra3 and people who do not use super weapon isn't noobs!
Generals was something else,in c&c generals,superweapon was focus because of researches whit china,gla toxic advantage,and US whit supearweapon advantage...
but in c&c3 and ra3 main focus is army and tactics,players even base defenses uses rare in c&c3 and ra3.....play little ra3 online or on lan and you will see what am I taking about....
and also check balance in game.

 

No massing, in a game without a control point cap?

 

I don't like the cap in sc.

Its fine having the population be controled by certain items like depots, overlords/hatches or pylons, but don't make a 200 or any amount limit.

Make it limited by how many are built, so long as they can keep building the control structures you can keep building units..

 

Ste the reason for the cap in Sc is a technological one not a balance one. Im not sure how many UMS mpas you have played but it is possible to reach the max number of "things" on a map and make it so no one can build anything anymore. I think this is even possible on a fastest map if a player (or players) goes heavy Carriers because once you add in the interceptors that's a lot of "things" per Carrier.

As for RA versus Sc that'sa not really a fair comparisson because of the age of Sc. If your comparring to Sc2 tthen your going to have to inform us when you actually played the game because unless someone has had some seriously playing time with Sc2 they are going to have a difficult time making a fair comparrison between the two.

 

And your point is?
c&c3 was mass unit game,but ra3 is more tactical game.
c&c1,ra1 and c&c 3 was massing games,all others are not.

 

Yeah right. Then you haven't even played RA2. No massing... Paradrops, Cloning Vats, insanely low constsuction time? If that isn't massing, then I don't know what is. Also, C&C pretty much invented the tankrush. lol

Not saying they're bad games, but they just aren't that interesting for competetive playing.

And about the unit cap: your whole screen can still be filled with units in sc. I think 200 was plenty. Further, it encourages players to play with good tactics. Just turtling while massing strong units doesn't do you any good.

 

[eq]

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No ra1 was famous about tank rushing....and you are wrong about ra2,
1. Paradrops gave you 8 lvl 1 infantry ...that is not massing 8 lvl1 infantry per 1,5 min is not massing.
2.Cloning Vase have only yuri and I never build that,yes it is useful but I never build that exept if I am going on infantry.
3. construction time is not low.....you can build 1 and no more,after that building is done then you can build another one and that goes for infantry and tanks...it is funny how people say tank mass but you can build tank only from 1 factory and one by one....no mass production!
4. If I mass Infantry,enemy easy can kill them all whit few another unit. like sniper,virus,navy
seal,desolator commando,demolition trruck and so on.... it is not black and white as you though....and obviously you don't know what it is.

 

Then you obviously haven't played it well enough. When playing as America, you can capture an Paradrop building, build an Airport and pump out mass Marines. That's easily 40 a minute. If you capture a Yuri/Russia MCV, you can double that amount.

Further, building multiple buildings of the same type decreases the construction time of the units that come with it. Build multiple factories and you get tanks faster, multiple airports and you get Harriers faster, etc.

Lastly: the genetic manipulator superweapon. Train as many initiates as you can with Cloning Vats and Paradrops, then use the superweapon on them. Dozens and dozens of the strongest infantry unit type in just 1 second.

Seriously, there are just to many easy mass tactics to explain them all. Beating brutal NPC's in all slots is a walk in the park. Beating humans is almost as easy if they aren't using the optimal builds.

As for easily killing all infantry with a SEAL and such: you should have already won before they even get those units. And if they do get them, send a couple of basic vehicles to scare them away, or put units in buildings. A SEAL can't even get close to an occupied building.

Seriously, there are few rts games that are less black & white then C&C.

 

Sorry but I just played Red Alert 3 a few weeks and ago and I must say it's pretty much complete trash. I was trying not to be too hard on it because I only spent a few hours with it but from what I can tell I completely disagree with everything Wlof said.

The StarCraft parts were wrong too (from what was comprehensble that I could read and understand). You can tell this person hasn't spent much time playing StarCraft.

 

Are you saying some maps don't have a unit cap?
Thats good.

Most games would never go long enough to where all space was used but if it was needed it would ne interesting?

Im just saying that units and building counts should just be limited by the computer and connection. I think most games are like that anyways?

I think it would make longer games more interesting..

Ok maybe not make the unit cap unlimited but at least double or triple the 200 cap in sc1..

I guess I just don't like restrictions.. meh.

 

Yes it is... And just because you take the defensive role it doesn't mean all the buildings have to be boring defensive structures. There could be some pretty awesome stuff to construct which we haven't heard of yet.

You can't counter when you're dead.
Only your teammates get the fun of countering.

 

Dude that is just infantry rush! 1 Russian ore miner can stop that rush or yuris slave miner....and first anti-infantry defense is good against that rushes...and seal you can get after radar and trhat is very fast....
Man infantry rush or mass can easily be stopped,even a tank rush and mass!

And yes you can pump marine whit US and + if you capture neutral airfield but how i said you can easy destroy that army of marines....

And Yes production speed up if you have lots of same type of buildings but seriously man think about it 1 war factory costs 2000 and I tested whit 5 warfactory you can build apocalipse tank or kirov for 8 sec and that is fast build time but do the math - 5 warfactorys = 10000 and each kirov or apoc tank = 2000...it is lame tactics and you can do only whit stuped AI in ra2 and for that time enemy player comes and destroy your base or just destroy your ore miners and that is that as I said it is not all black and white

And you are right AI in ra2 suck ***

Genetic mutator is good super weapon but brutes are melee and not good for all things!

 

Haha, so true. I hate dying, but it only happens 1 out of every 3 times if you're lucky.

As for the buildings, I just like to build giant bases in C&C games whenever possible. Well, in skirmish matches.

For example, I once made a giant Yuri base out of the whole Bay of Pigs map in Red Alert 2. It was awesome. The last enemy building with 2 infantry units were trapped within walls. Never did that online. It would be so humiliating. ^^