stalker air damage increase

Thank you lordKerwyn.

The reason the stalker has seemed so overpowered right now is because of the heavy use and lack of games. Of course something is going to seem to dominate if there are 20 something out with the lack of the other player forces.

I also think that the air attack is really the only upgrade but once again that is up to balance and as I see it the stalker should be fragile but strong.

 

@ LK. I still don't see where these numbers are coming from. While you have addressed that six extra bonus damage is a fairly radical change, there's still the problem of just throwing these numbers out there while none of us truly have an accurate of what that would achieve, apart from that it would apparently balance the allegedly unbalanced Stalker, which is supposedly a problem that the development team haven't noticed, and/or aren't able to fix without our help. As I said earlier, all these suggestions are are random stabs in the dark to try and fix problems that might not even exist.

As for the Stalker's competence, you've raised the point, whether directly or indirectly, that a great advantage about the Stalker is, simply, its ability to respond to such threats. While Dragoons, Marines, Hydralisks, Thors, Archons or whatever may be more powerful, the Stalker is much quicker to respond. As for being the all-rounder for Protoss Ground units, I'd rather see them more focused, personally, simply to reduce massing tactics, all-in-one units, and stuff like that. In my opinion Stalkers definitely should remain more focused on ambush or Anti-Armoured, and remain prone to larger groups of Light units, such as Zerglings and Mutalisks. The only problem with that is that their importance early on in Protoss versus Terran matches would be quite minimal, with Marines being Light and Marauders being superior at Anti-Armoured. However this is seen in most one versus one matchups, such as Hydralisks and Roaches being superior to Zerglings and Mutalisks in Zerg versus Zerg, and other such scenarios.

@ Ivhoang. The fact that Protoss have comparatively less bonuses than Terran has little impact on balance, as it's not as though Protoss are missing out on damage, it's just that they're able to do that same damage to everything. While the, say, Marauder's bonus against Armoured units may be thought of as them being better against such targets, it can also be thought of them as being worse against Light targets, and in the end, balances out. So while Protoss may not being dealing extra damage, they're not dealing reduced damage, as their base damage will have obviously have been properly balanced.

As for Psionic Storm, its nerf is no reason to up Stalker damage. While, yes, Protoss has to be balanced as a whole, Psionic Storm and the Stalkers aren't really dependent on each other, so can be balanced separately.

 

Part of the reason I suggested ranges was because I really don't know what would be balanced, pretty much I was indirectly suggesting a theme change, or a change in the way it approaches its current theme (whether it is the former or latter is really dependent on a couple of assumptions).

My opinion is that the Stalker should/is preforming the same role as the Dragoon in Sc1 (which was actually counter armored air and non-siege ground ranged units). The Dragoon's major weakness was melee units/swarms of light units.

My assumptions are that the Stalker costs a similar amount to the Dragoon and currently has significantly less HP and damage. Also, the Stalker is either currently balanced with a high rate of fire, or it is underpowered. Finally, the Stalker is actually weak against swarms of light ground units.

With the above goal and assumptions in mind I think the Stalker should probably have a higher base damage with maybe a moderate increase in its bonus damage. If that would make it overpowered I believe its rate of fire should be the first thing is changed to balance the unit. The reason I would pick rate of fire to go first is that if the Stalker is suppose to be a counter to armored units (which its bonus damage suggests) an attack that has a high rate of fire and low damage seems contradictory to that goal given the way armor in Sc works.

Basicly if you agree with my opinion and assumptions thats what I think needs to happen, if you don't agree with my opinion then we have a different issue to disscuss, and only time will tell if my assumptions are correct.

 

maybe 10+6 vs light air. Or even less then that.

Personaly i dont think protoss need to increase air dmg on the stalker. You get this unit like 3ed while You wont see an air unit (unless your rushing) until mid game and even then if your scouting like any normal player should you should of seen air coming and would of had ample time to build cannons and stalkers or even rush to air your self.

I think your request for 10+10 vs air should be denied.

 

Na it needs to be armored because archons and nulls already do light and also a lot of ata is based toward light this is also why I think the damage should be added.

 

i think Blizz believes that through a damage reduction, the stalker is given added mobility; higher base movement speed copared to the dragoon and the blink ability to offset the latter weakness. Also, i thought the Zealots were quite resistant to damage? It completely overwhelmed David Kim's Marauders in the first battle report?

 

Mauraders aren"t air dude besides they do 20 damage versus the stalkers 14 damage anyways.

lets look at the damage ratios also it takes 7 hits from a maurader to kill a stalker while it takes about 9 hits from the stalker to kill a maurader so it might possible offset it but still this is purly just gta not gtg.

Right now I feal it really dosen"t do enough damage when it comes to being the main source of gta that protoss have but we will have to see what happens.

 

Yeah... Who'd've thought that a dedicated Ground-to-Ground unit could kill a Ground-based Jack-Of-All-Trades?

But seriously, by that logic, Marines are they main source of Ground-to-Air for the Terran, and as such, should be given enough damage to handle any and all Air threats. The Protoss have other options for other counters, such as Archons for Mutalisks, and again, like all Dark Protoss, the Stalker isn't a brute force unit, and as such, specialises in versatility and response time.

 

Well also with the pheniox being a the main bulk of the ata force of the protoss and also the warp ray existing who knows what will happen.

 

I dont think thats the issue. Stalkers are protoss units, so you cannot compare them with Terran on the same basis. Still they should be stronger because they are protoss. Thats the point.100 Hp + 40 Shields with 10 dmg is ri-di-cu-lous.

 

They're not just Protoss, they're Dark Templar. Look at all Dark units, and they're much more fragile than most units.

 

ok then if they are Dark Templars - and you re actually right, they are - they should have a higher firepower.

 

If they are Dark Templar?

Regardless, again Dark Templar doesn't equate to high firepower, especially from such a staple Ground unit for the Protoss. Dark Templar are about mobility, stealth and getting in under the radar, hence the Stalker. It's advantage is its mobility. Not its health, not its firepower, its mobility.

On top of that, there's balance. We're in no position to say what's balanced. Blizzard employees, however, are in the position to say what's balanced, and funnily enough, they've come to the conclusion that their current statistics are balanced. Now I'm not saying that this means it is perfectly balanced, nor am I saying that it won't undergo further tweaks, but the Stalker's damage has undergone a fair few nerfs in the past, which shows that, regardless of the damage potential of Marauders and Hydralisks, it was overpowered.

I think it goes without saying that giving an early-game unit that's able to traverse cliffs, rivers, rocks and other obstacles too much of a substantial attack can become quite overpowered quite quickly. I honestly don't think you're taking anything other than direct GTA combat and one-on-one duels into consideration. This thing can not only get behind bases, but it can retreat again with minimal losses and isn't even susceptible to the standard Anti-Air defences of such access points. It's not only able to skip into a Siege Tank's dead zone, but can instantly traverse the gap of any unit that happens to have longer range than it does, which includes Siege Tanks, Lurkers, Brood Lords, Colossi, Carriers, as well as kite and escape from any and all units which have a shorter range, such as all melee units, Archons, Roaches and Banelings. It can also react much faster than Dragoons or any other Ground-to-Air unit in the game, which could be the difference between saving or losing an expansion, your economy or your tech tree, and from any threat, not just Air units.

Now especially when Protoss have specialist Ground-to-Air support to counter the Air-to-Ground counter for the Stalker, obviously being the Mutalisk, as well as a satisfactory Air force, I don't see any ground on which people can declare that the Stalker is underpowered, and needs a more powerful attack in order to counter Air targets.

 

Come on, we've been down that road so many times, haven't we?

I am just stating my opinion, and the reasons for it. Unfortunately, it doesn't depend on whether you think I am in position for this, it's only your judgment.

There is, however no need to write that much. I already know your position on the subject from your previous posts.

 

I'm not trying to go down any road. I'm mainly just saying that there's a heck of a lot that you lot don't seem to consider at all when talking about the Stalker. It's always in terms of damage comparison and direct and/or one-on-one duels, which is simply not what the Stalker is about at all.

Surely, in regard to all the examples, you can't still think that the Stalker needs to deal more damage.

 

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams

lvhoang:
If you're worried about your opinion being shot down for being faulty, don't share it. The point of discussion is to come out on the other end with a better opinion than the one you went into it with.

 

you know my biggest concern is that vs zerg who could easly rush air the protoss wont have a fast enough way to fight of air with an effective unit. It seems protoss have a LONG ways to go before they see an archon and a stargate. Will stalkers be able to keep you alive long enough to build an effective counter for 5 or more mutalisk? Trying to think about factoring in abilitys and map tarrain i could see if the zerg player kept hitting you from an area where stalkers could not blink how would they be able to shoot back. after 2 or 3 vollys from 6 or 7 mutalisk its going to look hopeless.

 

@ Neon: then If you are looking for a better opinion, you missed your point
we are exposing our ideas, and I dont consider Itza's replies as "shooting down" or anything hostile. I think we made it clear. Thanks for your input, but i think I'll pass ^^ Don't read if you think you are going to get nerves ^^


Anyway, my point stands and I do think Protoss have a problem against mass air - mutas being one of of these issues -. Now that Storm has a lower AoE, and that there is no more Corsairs (Phoenix only shoots one unit at a time), unless you come up with a new unit, stalkers should get a buff.

 

@ Ivhoamg from what i can see it seems like an effective aoe would be a better answer insted of buffing the stalker, on an early game maybe its possible to have that close game feel but on a large scale buffed stalkers still wont do squat.

Protoss should have an effective air aoe. terrans do. zerg do. why are the protoss lacking. maybe there should be an upgrade to turn the carrier's intercopters attack into a small aoe like the corsairs. A real small Aoe, nothing wide like the Corsairs.

 

@ Ivhoang. Don't start acting all high and mighty again. Seriously, it doesn't suit you, and you've got absolutely no backing for it. Believe it or not, yes, I am still challenging your opinion, which is why I asked you if you still think, when taking everything the Stalker can do into consideration instead of just direct one-on-one combat, if you still think it needs to be stronger.

aol's hit the nail on its head here. Buffing Stalkers isn't the answer when countering Mutalisks and the like, and you'll need an effective AoE to take them down. As for not really having anything to do that, I'm not too sure about that. When up against Zerg, I think it'll be imperative for the Protoss player to go for Templar and Archons, especially with their new bonus to Biological units. On top of that, Blizzard's stated that Psionic Storm, along with Archons, are still one of the best counters to massed Mutalisks.