SLEEK VIKING vs FAT VIKING (pics)

After reading this arguement I just had to create an account so I could post my thoughts, although I have no idea how to use the forums so forgive me if a screwed up in some huge way.

Anyway I will start off with saying that I liked the original concept art blizzard had, and am glad someone else did and tried to replicate it in an ingame model.

To start off I will say that I agree with Hex quite a bit. Zeratul's version does look very skinny and a bit akward, However I am sure that this wasn't supposed to be a very detailed peice of art and was just show everyone his basic idea.

I like your second concept though, and think it looks very nice. However, I again agree with hex that it looks much to anime-ish, and should not be tilting or turning to the side or running at a high pace. Although I have a huge hate for any type of anime, so I will not try to give you much crap about it.

Overall, I have no problem with the current Viking model, but agree it looks kinda fat/bulky(but that could be a good thing since it's an assualt vehicle) and would very much like to see one resembling the original concept. I greatly appreciate you putting so much effort into your work trying to make that possible. I would only ask of you to try and come up with a model that makes a little more sense, as I too hate the whole "It's the future" excuse.

Oh an just a little of topic, what is Hex's avatar supposedd to be? I can't figure it out.

 

Good to see you've created an account to share your thoughts. Looking forwards to seeing you around the Forums.

Apart from having differing views on our preference of the Viking model and concept art, we've definitely got some common ground. Anime and excuses like 'it's the future' have no place in StarCraft2. Animes are a completely different style of science fiction, and one that I find quite pointless, truth be heard, and excuses like 'it's the future' are nothing attempts to justify useless concepts with the minimum amount of effort. If there is any team that wouldn't use that excuse, it's the Terran. It's understandable, but not desirable, to have that for the Protoss and Zerg, but not for the Terran.

My avatar's of a High Templar's head. The original image is here but since then it's been flipped, cropped, edited, touched up, stylised, adjusted and photoshopped. That may sound impressive, but it's seriously not. My editing and touching up skills are about as developed of that of an unborn foetus and I sent it to kuvasz for the photoshopping.

 

thanks...
about the "its the future" excuse.... im saying that since everything is so "sci fi" advanced then things like real life physics, balance etc... doesn't really matter. so mechs with thin legs and heavy tops in futuristic sci fi doesn't mean they are not balance and unstable. NO! there are some advanced things that are hard to explain in sci fi. and starcraft is scifi, they have human teleporatation and stuff...which is far more unrealistic and makes no sense than just a futuristic mech legs that can support its heavy top part.

http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com/art/Mad-Max-mech-48770885
http://siaraa.deviantart.com/art/Mech-21564028
http://gridlinked.deviantart.com/art/Kerensky-Mech-HP-Final-51278003
http://soapcommercial.deviantart.com/art/Spider-Mech-29574994
http://rafta.deviantart.com/art/Uziel-Mech-40487152
http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com/art/Skirmisher-Mech-34052643 //one of my fave mechs art on deviant. xp
http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com/art/Light-mech-thing-73456206
from the matrix - http://lebowitz.deviantart.com/art/Mech-from-Matrix-revolutions-10390764
http://luck6.deviantart.com/art/mech-31866439
terminator -http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com/art/Terminator-hunter-killer-mech-45308344
http://z3r0knight.deviantart.com/art/Catapult-battlemech-CG-Test-48220514
http://punakettu.deviantart.com/art/Timber-Wolf-old-35880307
http://the-least.deviantart.com/art/WIP-Mech-11526866
http://wato.deviantart.com/art/Mech-Walker-15890725
http://buchio.deviantart.com/art/mech-v1-41193282
http://phantasmastriker.deviantart.com/art/Helios-79104847

these mechs are not made just to fall down easily just bcoz they have heavy top or thin flexible legs.
and some mechs here looks flexible (head can rotate sideways) and they are not anime!.

this is what i meant when i always says "its the future". even sleek vulnerable looking mech can be tough as nails bcoz they have hard to explain technology, steels, metals, that are sci fi or future advance.

and you are right my photoshop viking is far from what really a sleek viking should look like. it will look sleek but not as thin or disproporional like the ones listed above. dont say the terran is not that advance, the goliath looks more better and high tech or equal tech with the other mechs from the list above. by the way this goes mostly for itza. ^^

 

Firstly, you should never rely on "it's the future" to justify that something looks top heavy or as though it will overbalance.

Secondly, the vast majority of those images you posted do not suit the Terran, mainly due to the fact that they look flexible or are too thin, even though they're not anime mechs.

Thirdly, again, you should never justify having a thin mech as being tough as nails mech because of 'hard to explain technology'. If it's tough, it should be built tough. You seem to be forgetting that the Protoss have even tougher than nails weaponry, so in order to withstand that, the Terran will need a bit more than a couple of thin poles supporting their mech, no matter how tough the poles are.

Fourthly, the Goliath didn't look like a higher tech than the Viking. The Goliath was flimsy, had a high centre of gravity and a bubble-style cockpit, and the Viking is much better protected, lower centre of gravity and has a more advanced and armoured cockpit. Besides, there have only been four years between StarCraft:BroodWar and StarCraft2 so we can't expect to see any radically new, super-advanced mechs.

 

ofcourse i will rely on it...coz i dont know how to explain it better. for example even just a thin mech legs can support its upper part just like a normal legs can bcoz the thin legs is made up of advance electronics, magnets, and stuffs and is uver advance improvise adamantine steel which make it also powerful and hard, and thus completely ignores real life physics etc...and its possible bcoz t its in the far advance or semi advance(terran) "sci fi" future.

ok, clearly another misunderstanding. you did not get my points. like for example, regardless if the mechs suits the terran or not i was just showing that there are sleek or if you want to call it thin, unstable, unbalance, disproportion mechs in sci fi... but they only look that way but they are not.

because when you talk about the sleek viking, the one that i made, its like your saying that its useless and all bad since its top heavy and unstable etc.... well my last post shows its possible that they are the opposite no matter the look and they exist and they are functional like normal mech maybe even better.

the fact is you said sleek viking would look unstable etc.... making them less or not functional at all. but theres a lot of sleek or awkward looking mechs but they still work great and are very useful in battle. regardless of what the viking should look like im just debating on your point about mechs being top heavy and sleek doesn't make sense. they do make sense maybe even just for aesthetic reasons but it doesn't mean they are not functional, well guess for the terran they dont want their mechs to be that sleek etc... so thats why the fat viking is better but dont say that sleek vikings doesnt make sense. sleeker mechs may also have different purpose maybe to move faster and be more flexible on battle.

so dont say the viking is impossible to look sleek just bcoz its top heavy and everything will fall down. like ive shown with the other mechs pics its possible. so the viking can be sleek looking as well. if it does not fit the terran look, then ok, but dont say its impossible or useless or unstable etc... that is just a realistic excuse which like i said doesn't really matter much for a sci fi futuristic advance mech even the terran. and its not like its exaggeratedly thin, its just sleek.

and i did not say the goliath was more high tech than the viking.

i will replay to your other post later.

 

What I meant by not relying on it is that you cannot have a model that looks out of proportion, as though it's unable to stand, anime or just plain weak, and justify it by saying "it's the future". It's almost like an unspoken rule. If you try and do something like that, not only will that unit look awful, but it will end up effecting the whole atmosphere of the game. Thin legs are weak. Simple as that. Even if they are made out of a refined super-adamantine plus, A-grade steel alloy, it will not only look frail and weak, but be frail and weak. The reasoning? Well, if you had a pole, one centimetre in diameter, and another pole, a hundred centimetres in diameter, which one would be the better one to use when waging war against the Zerg and Protoss? The larger one of course. Even if the Terran use some amazingly strong alloy for the skinny Viking's legs, they will never be as strong as the original Viking's legs, made out of the same material.

Those mechs did not suit the Terran because they were thin, unstable, etc. Just showing examples of other machines and vehicles that work in a certain way will not miraculously mean that they will suit the Terran or will be able to be incorporated into the Terran's army. For example, I could post pictures of the AT-AT Walkers from Star Wars and show that they would work as a unit, but that does not mean that they would suit the Terran at all. I could post images of anime mechs from Gundam or whatever, but that does not mean they would suit the Terran. I could post images of Transformers as well and show how they would work, but that doesn't mean they suit Terran. Star Wars, Gundam and Transformers all work, but none of them fit Terran in the slightest, and the same goes for the mechs you posted.

When I'm talking about how sleek, thin, skinny, etc, mechs do not make sense, I'm referring to StarCraft, not anything else. Just StarCraft. I've said that Star Wars, Gundam, Transformers, etc, all work, but in the context of StarCraft, they don't. There is no point or sense in arguing whether thin, non-StarCraft mechs are just as functional or not in this thread, because this is a thread about the StarCraft2 Viking. The fact is that thin and sleek mechs would not work for Terran. You wouldn't see Star Wars, Gundam or Transformer style mechs in the Terran army just as you wouldn't seem them in each other's armies. All of them are mechs, but they're all of different styles. Thin, sleek and fragile styles do not suit the Terran.

Again, when I've said it's impossible, I've said it in context to StarCraft. I'm not arguing about whether thin mechs can exist at all, I'm arguing that they are impossible in the Terran's army. Perhaps not physically impossible for the Terran, but it would be similar to the equivalent of using a Volkswagen Beetle as a military Jeep.

If you don't think that the Goliath is of higher tech than the Viking, then you obviously think it's either of the same tech or lesser tech. Either way, it suits the fact that only four years have passed since the events of StarCraft:BroodWar. There wouldn't have been any amazingly spectacular technological advancements since then, so the Viking wouldn't look as though it's of an amazingly spectacular higher tech.

 

a lot of heat in this post...oh well, just to say that i really like your picture. no kiddin, i looove it. cheer up, you didnt spend all that time and hard work on that model and go unappreciated.

i get where HEX is goin at, its important to keep the terran units to their style, it adds to the flavor of the game. the races are very distinct, and the machines were made by completely different cultures. keep the high tech fantasy with the protoss, while the terran keeps the stuff thats sorta high tech, but more in touch with industrial, man-made, modern warfare. it needs to be so that if someone were to look at a random protoss or terran unit and be able to guess what race it is based on its design and style.

oh, and i think the viking looks a lot like the mech from Matrix Revolutions with armor, its awesome.

I'm all for making the air mode sleeker, like a real one man fighter. i dont really like that fat kiwi bird design, because the basic air unit is supposed to be versatile like the wraith or an F16 fighter.
how can you maneuver a fat bulking ship in aerial dogfights against mutalisks and phoenixes? like if someone were shooting at it, it would be an easy target because its so big and clumsy.
unless they make another unit for that...

 

Ultimate bump, but at least it was a constructive post.

As for being sleeker, to make it better suited for aerial dogfights with Mutalisks and Phoenixes, keep in mind that the Viking is designed to fight capital ships. It's not designed for taking on swarms of smaller, faster targets, like you're suggesting it is, where a slimmer design would most likely be more appropriate, on a practical level. So in that regard, the bulkier design suits the actual role of the Viking much more appropriately than a slimmer design would.

 

okay...so shall we have another air unit? the terran really should have a versatile air unit like the wraith, you know, to compete with the other small air units

 

Vikings are still able to counter them, it's just that their main design is to take down capital ships. They still do just as much damage as the Wraith, though due to the changing combat system, will deal double what Wraiths used to deal to Mutalisks. The anti-capital ship specialisation comes with its bonus against Massive units, which almost doubles its damage.

Other options to counter massed Air units include the Battlecruiser and Thor, along with the staples, like the Marine.

 

so its all balanced: vikings, battlecruisers, thor, and marines provide efficient counter for those little air units, is that right?
thats kinda sad, i liked the terran airforce. now it looks like the terran do not have a versatile one man plane to match up for those phoenix/mutalisk dogfights anymore. no basic agile air fighter.

 

I already explained that the Viking is just as effective as the Wraith when fighting most Air units, and even more effective against the Wraith when fighting Mutalisks, Carriers, Motherships and Battlecrusiers. Long story short, it is an improvement of the Wraith.

I'll break it down, real simple for you.

In StarCraft1, Terran had Wraiths, Valkyries, Battlecruisers, Marines, Ghosts, Goliaths and Missile Turrets, and arguably Science Vessels with Irradiate, that could attack Air targets.

In StarCraft2, Terran have Vikings, Battlecruisers, Marines, Ghosts, Thors, Missile Turrets, Auto-Turrets and arguably Nighthawks with Hunter Seeker missiles.

• Vikings are far superior to Wraiths. They deal the same damage, and have a bonus against Massive units. On top of that, the Wraiths only dealt half damage to Mutalisks, which the Viking does not.
  
  
• Although there is no current replacement for the Valkyrie, which was seldom used at best, due to extreme cost, the Battlecruiser has gained the Missile Barrage ability, which deals the same style attack, having a large area of effect radius, and on top of that, deals bonus damage to Light units, such as the Mutalisk.
  
  
• The Battlecruiser's normal attack deals almost twice as much as it did before, and although unit's armour value has a much more significant impact on its damage, upgrading Ship Weapons also has a much more significant impact.
  
  
• Marines have remained largely the same, although now have a significant health upgrade, which allows them to last longer. The Medivac also heals them faster than Medics did, but obviously won't be as numerous.
  
  
• The Ghost in StarCraft2 deals double what the Ghost in StarCraft1 dealt.
  
  
• The Goliath has been scrapped, though the Viking is more than enough to cover both the roles of the Wraith and Goliath, the only difference being one comes from Air while the other comes from Ground. Which brings me neatly to the...
  
  
• Thor. The Thor's the new Ground-to-Air attacker, and is designed to take on both massed units, like Mutalisks, with a large, powerful area of effect Anti-Air attack, and with siege range, too, and also to take on Armoured Air units, dealing double damage to them.
  
  
• The Science Vessel's Irradiate was neat for taking out Zerg Air units, but useless for anything else. The Hunter Seeker missile of the Nighthawk can target anything, and does damage to all those around it as well. It can be outrun, but said unit will be out for over fifteen seconds.
  
  
• Missile Turrets are returning just the same, and new Auto-Turrets are instantly deployable, and have an Anti-Air attack.

I'll let you come to your own conclusion about Terran Anti-Air now.

 

The Missile Turret has changed for the better, actually. It now has an upgrade that makes it more useful. This was said in the Team Liquid Q&A.

 

Even better.

So practically, everything for Anti-Air on the Terran side has been buffed.

 

i know, i know, its balanced in the game.

I'm saying that i would like there to be a visually sleek and agile terran starfighter counterpart to the phoenix and mutalisk forces, you know. like those x wing vs. tie fighter skirmeshes.
realistically or in cinema, the terran dont have a small, simple starfighter that is sleek and easy to maneuver to dodge attacks from other planes. all they have are big, clumsy vikings that are easy to hit because their so big. i can imagine in a cinema dogfight, phoenixes and mutalisks are the small agile units that are all over the place and can make sharp turns, while the bulking vikings are making easy targets because their of their size.

 

The Wraith and most likely the Predator will be available in the editor for cinematics like that.

As for in-game, it is actually only piloted by one man, and although obviously much bulkier than the Phoenix, what with being of Terran technology, it's not remarkably bigger than it, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Obviously the Mutalisk is, and will always be, the smallest fighter in the sky, but the Phoenix and Viking aren't actually that much bigger.

 

okay, so its not much bigger. but the phoenix is streamlined and soars gracefully through the sky and can make better turns, while the vikings are like boxes and... well, you know.
and its true that terran technology is all bulky like the tanks and mechs and stuff, but this is air. i mean, it only makes sense to have a good streamlined standard fighterplane for movement and flexibility in dogfights.

 

I think Blizzard is trying to make the 3 races as different as possible. So not every unit is gonna feel the same.

 

Fat viking.

It doesn't have to look pretty.

It just has to work.

 

BBV.

Big Beautiful Viking.


I think it looks just great aesthetically, and I don't think Terran need the Wraith or anything similar back, as Itza has made clear.