siege tank less effective?

Hate to break it to you but the Colossus is an anti-infantry unit, not anti-armor. It probably won't fare very well against large buildings, bunkers and turrets included. Also, the fact that it receives damage from AA attacks as well as ground attacks is a large hindrance to base harassment.

 

i think i am curious to see about the colossus is the effects of having it quite low in the tech tree, only requiring the same amount of tech as reavers. getting such a powerful unit quite early might have a significant effect on the gameplay

 

Agreed. And thats definitely a good thing. Siege tank was probably the best starcraft unit. Not so much because of its range or high splash damage but because the whole Terran race depended on it. Now it looks like the tanks effectiveness will be spread over other units which means more different tactics for Terrans.

I think the key to fighting the Protoss will be using Thors as a meatshield for the rest of your army. I think this is what the battlecruiser was intended to be in SC and what thor will do in SC2. And this is something that the Terran army desperately needs, a unit that will stop the enemy from reaching the tanks and at the same time have enough hp not to be instantly destroyed by friendly fire from the siege tanks.

So if the thors can halt the zealots from getting to the tanks you should have most of your tanks and some vikings and cobras alive when the zealots are down, and this should be enough to take out the immortals. The only problem are the warp rays who appear to be effective against high hp targets like thors. So I think the key to Terran victory will be keeping thors safe from warp ray attacks (which won't be easy since warp ray will prolly attack from the back of the Protoss formation, protected by other units) because if the thors go down too early zealots and immortals will overrun Terran army.


Bonus 200 minerals for a great post

 

yeah, but if a thor stands in front of a bunch of siege tanks and what you got is zealots, all you need to do is
A) just slaughter the thor. the thor will take like 50 damage every time a siege tank aims for a zealot.
B) run around the thor and just slaughter the siege tanks. The thor turns around so slowly you can just ignore it.

 

I don't think you can just slaughter the thors with zealots. Im sure Terrans will have plenty of them, 6 to 7 at least. I think that most of the zealots will give in by the time all those thors are dead. But I guess you could use zealots to run past thors, I haven't thought of that. I think in that situation you would also have to bring your immortals closer to thors if you want them to keep supporting the zealots. And this would make your immortals open to attacks from cobras and vikings which would end badly for immos. I don't know, I still think thors are meant to be meatshields for siege tanks, what else can they do?

 

What I've noticed, in both races we've seen, is that mobility is key over turtling. The Protoss were always strong on the attack, and average on the defense, while Terran was vice versa. But now with the advent of terrain changing ground units, Warp/Blink, the Viking, everything is shifted over to who can go where the fastest. Turtling is a dead strategy, and thus you need to adapt. Remember, the best defense is the best offense.

 

uuuuummm.... i dont know... like... ASSAULT A BASE? That is the thors main role, it is described as one on the starcraft 2 website.

 

And when you are not assaulting bases? When the armies fight in the open, what should the thors do?

 

Shot stuff of course. Siege Tanks are also designed against Bases. Doesn´t make them useless on open terrain though. These units are better against bases since they have issues with mobility.

 

well, the tank got a huge boost to a wholoping 100 damage to armor. it can murder stalkers with 2 shots so even if they try to blink in they can be taken out by rines/w.e.

 

Not bring your Thors with?

 

The Thor will be most useful in static engagements, which would include open terrain face-offs so long as the enemy is pinned down and won't be actively flanking you.

Any type of terrain choke will give the advantage to the Thor.

This will be even further motivation for any player, Zerg, Terran, or Protoss, to stop the Terran in the open field before they can get their momentum going.

Flanking is going to be an even more integral part of beating Terran opponents.

About the Seige Tank, however, like I said before, it seems it is becoming a more specialized, anti-armor unit. While it will still do significant damage to infantry units, such as Zealots, it will no longer be the "be all end all" answer to infantry and light-armored attacks. However, it will be packing some serious punch when dealing with armored units, especially with the increase in range. It will be the perfect counter to the Thor.

But here's a question.... increase in maximum tank range = increase in minimum tank range??? There may be a large area that the Seige Tank cannot hit while in seige mode.....

Finally, I feel that a few of these units are being tweaked a bit too much to meet this "perfect" counter of opposite units. Often, in SC1, units simply became the counter to a unit, they weren't necessarily designed that way.

Of course, everything can be tweaked, but I don't necessarily like the "perfect" counter idea because it limits a player's options once a unit appears on the field. It also may tempt the developers to be less aware of the abilities of other units to counter certain units since this "perfect" counter exists to it. It's just a concern that I have about the way the development of SC2 is occurring. Feel free to allay my fears. This one is pretty much specifically aimed at Remy.

 

with bombard the thor counters static siege tank formations, where as previously terrans had to drop against static sieged tanks now they can use thor's bombard, even against higher ground. i know it's an overkill in the clip but it's still a viable tactic.
in normal engagement without bombardment siege tank > thor

http://www.starcraft2.com/flash/global/movieplayer_terran_thor.swf

 

Yes. That's quite obvious. But there's no way that any decent Terran player is going to let you have free shots at his seige tanks when Thors are around. With their increased range (it's been increased since this video) they will be knocking Thors from a huge distance. Also, the advantage of three Thors over two Seige Tanks doesn't show us much about the power of either unit. It just shows us pretty fireworks.

In fact, for three artillery strikes, this actually looks like a bit of a weak attack.

 

Colossus all the way. They just look cooler. siege tanks will stillbe useful but the Protoss have new weapons against them and the zerg are bound to gain a few useful units to break though a siege as well.

 

The only really effective ground counter to seige tanks that I have seen thus far is the Immortal.

Once again, nothing is going to be getting through concentrated tank fire. Even 3 tanks will easily take down a lone colossus. More than 5 tanks will take down 2-3 easily, and the ratio only gets worse from there.

It's the same with the Thor. Unless other units will be absorbing fire as well, the Thor won't be able to readily approach the seige tanks.

However (I just thought of this, hee hee) the Thor owner could take a calculated risk based on the number of Seige Tanks facing him and decide to lift off his Thor and bring it down well within Artillery Barrage range. While it might sustain critical damage, it still may be able to get an Artillery Barrage off, effectively neutralizing some of the tanks. That could be an extreme, risky, and useful strategic use of the Thor.

 

But odds are the Protoss will be using aircraft since the colossus can't hit air. This is a neutral arguement since the tank also doesn't hit air so teran will also have air units. The colossi's true power is with other support units to help absorb damage. The best way to see the colossus vs. tank will be when the actual game comes out. Numbers will only mean so much in any game, its how you use them.

 

yes,numbers really aren't everything.even though the Thor has a high hp,it won't do any help to send one alone against 3 or 4 Siege Tanks.the Siege Tanks are still the best when it comes to long range attacks,because of their long range and speed(much superior to the Thor's).both the Thor and the Siege Tank are long range attackers(with the Thor being more specialized to destroy buildings),but one will not make the other useless...

 

Thors can take a huge beating other than siege tank attacks, and they can still attack air, and do significant damage to armored units.

Dont think the Thor cant hold his own vs units without bombardment.

 

I just wonder how the colossus's attack will be affected by heavy armored units. Like what would be the percentage increase or decrease it has vs. heavy units.