Should the zerg Guardian REturn

thats appreciated josh, made me a happy lad

i wish all misunderstandings were solved so smoothly in everyday life hahaha
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wow... i went to post and then got the msg of another post while i was posting as it happens.. gasmaskguy.. cheers to you too, you both have put me in quite a good mood

thanks a whole bunch aye

 

well, you are a good arguer, so you deserve it. keep it up.

 

LOL. It was nothing. It's almost midnight here and you're the one I've seen contributing well for today so, why would I not give a powerup and let it just waste when someone deserves it.

 

i hope the guardian returns with a new name and a special ability. Most other units have something interesting about them/upgrades and whatnot. The guardian is the only unit i can think of without anything cool for them. For example, muta's have the ninja bouncing stars, hydras have the speed upgrade and range upgrade. Guardians are just gaurdians.

 

The range is a worthy feature, but since zerg don't have this many ATA units, it's left hostage to its inability to attack other air. They should be replaced by something quick or good at defending themselves.

BCs kill Scourges, and hardly Mutas will overcome their heavy armor. Devourer kills BCs, I've done it before (huge group of devourers vs. only BCs), but they have such a huge cooldown that their armor weakening skill is hardly considered, imo. Zergs need aerial forces upgrades.

 

well you can't take a really powerful unit and make it good vs everything. It's like giving tanks a missle turret as well as a siege turret. The lack of anti air really made up for the gaurdians pretty much godly anti ground powers. It's speed is also pretty important. This is why most people morph mutas next to a base, so they dont have to wait for the gaurds to travel slowly. Making them fast and having aa will just make them seem like any other unit.

 

But Hopefuly the Zerg Overlord now can attack even a single damaged because its too bad specially when somebody attcking it specially the Protoss Corsair

 

once again, that would be a bad idea to give overlords the ability to do damage. first of all it's crazy imba. Second of all it's just insane to think an overlord has an attack. Maybe it can pincir things. Third of all, it's the worst idea i ever heard of to give it 1 damage... what's the use? Finnaly, it just ruins starcraft. An important thing for a protoss was overlrod harras, and if they can fight back it just makes it harder and maybe even a useless tactic. Also, good zerg players are good zerg players becuase they can manage their units well. Such as using their overlord to keep out of range of hte enemy but still be able to see what's going and what not. It'd also make dropping easier for a zerg.

It'd be cool to see an overlord rush though.

 

chill, you dont have to say that "it´s the worst idea i ever heard".

But, one key argument is this; overlords doesnt cost food.

 

Well I don't see it having 'godly' anti-ground powers. It's 20(min)-26(max) dmg with enough cooldown (30, same as Mutas). The only good thing about it is the range, and the fact that being aerial they can use the terrain in their favor. Siege-tanks and Reavers do a much better job at sieging than it does. Specially STs, since they can also overcome obstacles as long as they have sight.

 

it's range is the most important factor, allowing it to out range turrents and armies coming towards it, it allows guardians to focus fire very effectively. if guardians had same range and damage as battlecrusiers they would be like 150hp bc's which would actually suck, despite a big improvement from 20-26 explosive damage to 25-34 normal damage

 

I am not sure the guardian should return. I think the zerg need a unit to fill its role but it may be interesting to see a new unit replace it. What I really liked about guardians was their long range and being able to take out fixed AA defenses. They were an extremely useful unit, however, I want to see a great number of new units.

From the Protoss we know these units are returning: Zealot, Hight Templar, Dark Templar, Carrier, and I think the observer, and probe.

From the Terran we know these units will return: SCV, Marine, Medic, Ghost, Siege Tank, Dropship, Battle Cruiser

So each of those races has 6 to 7 units returning out of the 13 to 14 units they had total.

If the zerg bring back, Drone, Zergling, Hydralisk, Multalisk, and Overlord they probably only should keep 1 or 2 more of their original units. I like Guardians, but I also like Defilers, Devourers and Lukers. Some of those will return but some won't. If the Guardian returns I will be happy but I will also be happy if it is replaced by another cool unit.

 

Nice math Quanta. Seeing through that angle, the 11 unit Zergs (counting Overlords and drones, but not Infested terran and broodlings) will have 12 units now, as each race got one more than they had in BW. Merging units is also expected, as seen in Phoenix, Twilight archon and Viking.

So perhaps the zerg will have more units returning, even if they have to merge them.

What about merging the Guardian and the Devourer? A longer cooldown could suffice to balance the ATA ability gained...

 

I don't think you should count the overlord as a unit, since they were mostly for increasing food, and that was the role of a building in the other races. So the overlord should be counted separately, since it's something it absolutely needs. So yeah, Guardian should return, along with the Defiler. Two of the most useful units in the Zerg.

 

But you should count it as a unit: as zerglings and scourges cost 0.5 food, Overlord costs 0! Even if they are necessary, they are a necessary unit. They're detectors and the transport in early game. They can distract enemy defensive fire. As long as it can be used as an unit, I'll count it as one! ^_^ It's the most unique unit ever created in a RTS game.

And you're right, Zergs have many beloved unit that everyone wants to return, although they won't. I loved the Ultra but have already abandoned hope that it will come back. As an Ultralisk again, that is. At most, a remodeled one.

 

I doubt anyone will agree with me, but I, personally, found the Queen much more useful than the Defiler. Having several Queens allows frequent and quick Broodling/Parasite runs, harassing and slowly wearing away at the enemy, as well as being able to gauge their forces and checkout their base. Broodling was also great at getting one-hit-kills on Siege Tanks, other Ultralisks and High Templar or Ghosts before they have a chance to Psionic Storm/launch a Nuke. If your Queen found your opponent's force coming for your base, Ensnare could easily divide their force or just slow it down completely. Ensnare was also able to Uncloak otherwise Cloaked units if you didn't have a Detector, and slow down fleeing troops. Infest Command Center wasn't as good, but could be used to swiftly bring down a critically injured Command Center allowing your units to focus their attack on Barracks, Factory etc. Infest Command Center was especially useful when you wouldn't otherwise have enough attack power left to take it down.
The Defiler was also a great unit, Dark Swarm was good both offensively and defensively, but against Protoss could easily be nullified with a Corsairs Disruption Web, and was relatively useless against Reavers, Siege Tanks and Lurkers. Plague could be deadly, but in BroodWar most teams (especially Terran) could pretty much re-heal all their units/buildings. Plague could also able to reveal Cloaked units. Consume was able to decrease the delay between spells, with the small cost of one Zergling or similar.
They are both great units, but the Queen suited me better. I would much prefer Queens returning than the Guardian, and I would prefer Guardians over Defilers.

 

the queen's fun to mess around with in single player, but its not effective in high level games, the defiler is an absolute must in zvt games, without it the zerg stands no chance

 

I saw a video on scourges and let's just say.....

80+ scourges pwned around 12 battlecruisers.

Ow.....it's amazing. Scourge AI isn't that good, but the guy absolutely pwned the battlecruisers with just scourges. (The hydralisk were dying to the shots, and the devourer was for backup)

 

you mean this one?

 

I'm surprised that that lot of Scourges could even damage the Battlecruisers. Usually if there are enough Battlecruisers, then the Scourges can't even get close, they all get one-shotted and there are enough Battlecruisers to keep up the rate of fire. However 80 Scourges is a lot to send in one attack, and if you mess it up, all of them hit the one target .

By the way, BnechbReaker, quit implying that my style suits or that I play a lot of single player, you've done it in multiple threads now. I might not play all the high-level games that everyone talks about (I'm not that into StarCraft), but I definitely do not play single player. I mainly play with some mates of mine and even though we aren't top-end players, we're all fairly evenly matched so it's still competitive and interesting. Just because I don't play high-level games, it doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid. Sorry about the rant, but I just had to clarify that.

EDIT: Ah classic StarCraft, how much I've missed you... Also, I can hardly call that 80 Scourges taking on 12 Battlecruisers or whatever. The Battlecruisers were focusing on the Hydralisks, etc, on the ground. If it was purely that many Battecruisers and that many Scourges, I still reckon Battlecruisers would win.