SHOULD blizzard impliment veterancy for terrans?

I'm not saying an army would be affected in any way via balance because of these promotions. I'm simply saying that making any unit more powerful than it originally was in early gameplay because of kills it has made will make it extremely difficult for any player to regain momentum enough to survive until tier 2 or 3 play.

I would go and look through all the replays I've ever watched, but I'd rather not.

Search YouTube for "insane micro" etc...

 

if that's the only problem and if it indeed cause issues then all the game need to do is make sure in early game it wouldn't be easy to gain promotion for particular units such as the siege tank,

btw, once a terran gets siege tanks, it will signal the end of early game and the transition into mid game will follow soon

 

Right but I consider the first 1-3 tanks to be early game stage. And it can apply for any powerful mech unit. Vulture included since it is often produced as one unit first and used by itself. If it kills a number of marines and becomes powerful, then not even another vulture that isn't promoted can kill it.

 

ultimately even if you do manage to get such a vulture, one uber vulture is not gonna decide the outcome of the game unless you are uber gosu like some of the korean pros, but then you deserve to win since you have so much skillz.

 

you can nerf rankings so there are no uber units, just slightly better ones

 

Uhhh... yes it DOES mean a victory in one of those Korean games. That's what I'm trying to say. You can't implement a system just because it causes minimal advantage in a regular game.

If you take the same system and implement it in a "pro" game, it will wreak havoc with the gameplay.

Winning will based on who can get the most promoted units and micro them the best.

 

You're not taking into account that if you manage to get an upgraded vulture in the early game, you've already killed ten units, and you're opponent probably isn't in the position to beat you with or without the upgrade. Also, there is no reason for the kill minimum for level 1 veterancy to be low, nor for there to be multiple levels or veterancy. Either way it's still likely to be a rather weak ability in general, and will most likely be overshadowed by other, more practical ways of obtaining stronger units.

As far as saying "its slightly more powerful, it will win 1 v 1..." well so what? How is that different than facing any other more powerful unit?

 

VERY different if you don't have the capability to build a unit of that power.

The two players are always going to be on RELATIVELY the same ground technologically. If one player has the capability to have a more powerful unit than the other unit (assuming they're the same race) then this upgrade will completely imba the match.

I'm simply saying that this will HEAVILY favor players who micromanage. If you can save even ONE of these units and upgrade it early game, it will COMPLETELY turn the tide of battle.

Whoever gets a promotion first and keeps their unit alive will have a gigantic advantage when its still small numbers of units.

 

One unit will not have that much of an effect. There is absolutely no way for the upgraded unit to have as much of an effect as the procees of getting it, viz. killing ten or so units without losing one yourself in the earliest moments of the game.


Furthermore, you have no way to back up your claims that it would have an effect at all. You've never played Starcraft 2...

 

joneagle, you're talking about ranking as if the ranked units are going to get the same boost they do in C&C, numbers can be balanced so its just a nice surprise and it promotes some micro.

How many times have you seen a vulture with 10-15 kills, EARLY GAME?

Even then its just one vulture thats A LITTLE stronger not a beef machine

 

I have never said anything about the number of kills it would take to increase the rank of the unit.

If the number was unattainable, such as 10 kills, what is the point of the upgrade? It would hardly ever happen. Might as well just make it an aesthetic rank, which I am suggesting in the first place.

So, assuming the the number of kills required to gain rank is more like 3-4 (a high number of kills for a surviving unit in SC) then it is quite feasible that a player that is skilled in micro could promote their first couple of tanks.

Let me give an example:

Player A is good a micro. He has produced one tank and has used it to kill 3 Marines and a Firebat and the unit is now promoted to a "Captain." That tank now has an extra hit point per shot and a half point increase in armor(I would consider this a minimal upgrade). Player A produces a second tank and kills Player B's remaining 3 Marines and a Firebat and now has two tanks with an extra hit point per attack and a half point increase in armor. Player A now moves on Player B's base with a couple of SCVs for repairs and supporting infantry.

Player B, realizing the threat the tanks pose, decides to build tanks of his own. He has also seen the approaching Marines but he only has the two tanks that just popped out of production and a lesser amount of Marines than Player A (he lost 6 Marines and 2 Firebats to Player A). Since neither player has seige ability, only cliffs will save him now. BUT WAIT! IT'S NOT LOST TEMPLE?!?!?!?!?!

Player A, with a larger amount of infantry (because of the lost Marines) and two tanks that are now superior to the tanks that Player B possesses, is easily able to destroy those tanks and his Marines.

Without these upgrades the battle would have been much more even and still winnable for Player B. With the upgrades, and since Player A has already established himself as better at micro (since he has killed Player B's Marines without losses) there is no chance that Player B will be able to overcome this disadvantage.


Now, I understand that a player SHOULD be decent at micro in order to survive in order to use his macroing skills to level the playing field with his opponent. HOWEVER, if that opponent can then gain a numerical advantage in the early stages of the game because of his abilities, then ADDED WITH his ability at micro, it makes a VERY, VERY large advantage in early game play that will most likely kill the player less skilled at micromanagement.

 

In the example above, the advantage to player A is the fact that he has 8 more marines than player B. The two extra damage points and the one point of armor are not going to make a difference when player A already has such an advantage. It's certainly not deciding the battle, and I think we would all agree that if we were to take the upgrade away from player A and give it to player B, B would still lose.

 

Of course the Marines are a factor. I'm saying that the ranking system would be an ADDITIONAL advantage that is a) not necessary and b) unfair in that once it occurs, the opposing player has no chance of turning the tables with a spurt of good micro.

 

So, you are saying that the upgrade is not necessary, and that player A would still win without it. Therefore, you have basically stated that it is insignificant overrall, and does not upset any balance, as the same player would still win either way.

Now we can look at it as being useless; so why is it there, get rid of it. Or we can see it as 'that doesn't really do anything but, hey, it doesn't hurt anything either, and it's pretty cool to have my units become vets.'

So why not implement it?

 

It focuses too much on the unit it makes you not want to make new units because whats the point when i can just stick to it and max it out ? veterancy is not sc2 ladies and gentleman to hell with the lores its all about the gameplay

 

i agree with kenshin72 it just isn't Starcraft material

 

If this were to be added to Starcraft even for the Terran it would need to be counter-balanced by a significant change for the other races. As such this is not SC at all. Save for the Aesthetic value. Even then it would be a lot. Damage increasing, accuracy increasing, speed increasing, ect. This all would need to be changed upon the values of what other enemy units get and what the balance is. The only way I can see this being put into effect is this. Its a supporting enhancement to already enhanced parts of the Unit. Such as this Marine for Example.

Rank 1 Marine
3/3 Weapons/Armor - +1 Extra Damage Per Upgrade (Aside from the already +1.)

Rank 2 Marine
3/3 Weapons/Armor - +2 Extra Damage/+1 Extra Armor

Rank 3 Marine
3/3 Weapons/Armor - +2 Extra Damage/+2 Extra Armor

The Rank of the Unit would appear right below the Name (As such it was before.),but, would have 3 Stars that would fill in as it gains rank. There is no experience meter as before only a kill counter. Like this. Note* I grabbed Vulture cause its only one I could find.



Thats what I could expect. Ya...

 

starcraft can implement something like this. just because it was not included in starcraft 1 doesn't mean its not a starcraft thing anymore.

its a new great mechanics for the terran.

and nice stat showing how it works shdwytemplar.. with that, ranking for sc2 ftw!

 

It really goes against the zerg way of fighting... and adds even more micro because you know you'll be trying to protect that up-and-coming marine with everything you got to give him that +1 precious attack.

in C&C 3, the veteran unit had double firing rate and regeneration... so they were really significant; but then again you'd be lucky to get one or two in a game.

 

It's too C&C.