SHOULD blizzard impliment veterancy for terrans?

you could modify the numbers or the smount of upgrade for veterancy tro make it balanced also it would take way longer to get 4 upgardes than it would to get a vet unit when you think of the mineral costs.

 

Thats called halfassing it

@lordkerwyn - that would make it even harder to balance

 

taking away the protoss ability to increase potential, it could work in theory, but it would make protoss players far too conservative with their units

 

im just throwing out ideas that everyone could like to try and make the vet thing unique but equal to the other races. Also i am curious how many people actually max out there upgrades against other players?

 

^If it's a long game, I usually max out upgrades They're much more useful than they might seem. ^

I don't think there should be veterancy in SC2. It would be ridiculously imba for one thing, especially against Zerg, as their units hardly ever kill more than 3, aside from maybe guardians and ultras. Even a small change could unbalance the game, If it was to be like an upgrade, that's like a free and nearly instant upgrade. For example, take Carriers. Their base damage was 6, and 8 intercepters, so 48 total damage. Fully upgraded it's 9 per intercepter, so 72 damage. Say that a veterancy gives +2 to attack. That's a 18 total damage increase, which in SC terms, is huge! Not to mention the armor that goes into it. Units with 5 armor or more only took 1 damage from non-upgraded interceptors. But if you up that to 11, they take 6 damage, which really screws things up, as they're not meant to be that strong. While most units have less than 5 armor, this still applies to all of them.

 

heres the thing. units ranking up is HARD to accomplished in games. its not like you need to rank up your troops to win games, its just a LITTLE advantage as it will help you. its just a BONUS. lets say for all infantries(marines, reapers only) it needs to kill 10 units to get promoted to gain +2 damage and 5 hp (<-not really that much ei). hell its hard to make a unit kill 12 enemies except maybe for a ghost. so ghost is exceptional maybe they need to kill 20 enemies first to get promoted. mechanical ground units shold get a different amount of kills on the ranking system.

so if like ranking has 3 level. 10 kills needed for the first rank. then 25 kills(+4 damage and 10hp) for the next, and finally 40 kills(+6 damage 20 hp) to be a hero. see its harder than you think it is, and you DONT obviously necessarily need to focus on doing this, if your fortunate then good. you MAY get a hero or commander... and yes he's still easily killable. its not like you are going to spam commanders, privates, generals in the battlefied..its almost impossible to acquire many officers etc. you need to micro well if that is so, which actually makes another nice mechanics and strategy(terran) for the game.

so whats imba about that? and i dont see it affecting the gameplay that much as IT IS ONLY OPTIONAL(lucky stuff) and just a simple BONUS. the important thing is it ADDS UP MORE PLAYING STYLE FOR THE TERRANS and the MILITARY FEEL. starcraft 2 is not starcraft 1.and ofcourse protoss and zerg alike must get some advantages as well.

 

It's nearly pointless because most times you use groups of many different units to fight, and unless you have some godly micro or cheats, it's very, very hard to get a unit to kill 10 units, as the kills are spread out over the group. It could also be abused by getting strong units and dropping them on workers to get an easy rank. Take obsoleteness + imbalance and you get something Blizzard would never implement.

 

no the 10 kills are just a random lame idea. you want it to be 5 kills? no problem. its too imba? then increase it etc.the possibities are limitless. blizzard can handle it. and you said its HARD to make unit promoted, so why did you say its imba. and about a single unit killing workers, i don think its that easy. anyway if the unit accomplished it then he get promoted. why not? he deserve it. and you deserve it. =p and yes about having groups attacking, thats what make it not imba. and it will be almost take a miracle to get a single unit promoted UNLESS if you care and micro properly. and they will still DIE.

a ghost gettting a succesful nuke on enemy unit, simply deserves to get promoted assuming he killed MANY. he gets mayb +6 damage and 20 hp.. its not like this single unit alone will change the tide of war. and by the way he may be the ONLY RANKED UNIT during the whole game.

the important thing here is the FEEL it gives. after which balancing must be made. and the LITTLE advantage you get is just a bonus.

yah they may never implement it. but at least and im sure that they have thought about it. =p

 

Im with zeratul11 on this one.

Its not like 10 kills from any marine upgrades every marine after.

I mean its only one marine with 5 kills that has 5hp more than everyone else.

The rest of the marines have the same amount of HP. A marine's life is 6 seconds on average. Wow

Bigger units will have a harder time to rank up. Its really a cool concept, and promotes micro. If you manage to get a group of ranked marines, good job !

Its nothing game breaking.

 

Veterancy for just the Terrans would be imbalanced, and I am going to analyze how Blizzard goes about evening the playing field for the three races to explain why.

Take unit health, for example. The Terran don't regenerate health, the Protoss regenerate half their health, and the Zerg can regenerate all of their health. As is, very unbalanced. However, Blizzard does a number of things directly affecting life in combat to level the table. The Terrans get the Repair and Heal abilities, and thus can return to full health. The Protoss, while they can't ever return to full health, have the Shield Battery and are in general much tougher than either of the two races. And while the Zerg don't have a means to quickly recharge, their units are meant to be short-lived in combat. All together, these things ensure that as a whole Zerg, Protoss, and Terran forces all have an equal chance at prevailing in combat.

Now take the 'Veterancy' system as it is now in Starcraft - the upgrades. Each race has three levels, and each level is approximately equivalent between Zerg-Terran-Protoss. It ensures even survivability in combat across the board. If there was a discrepancy here, it would be fantastically hard to balance compared to unit health as outlined above.

If the Terrans alone were allowed to have veterancy on top of the standing upgrades there would be no way to balance it out with the other races, unless all three also had the veterancy. Yeah, I suppose you could increase the toughness of the Protoss and Zerg - but at least with the Zerg that doesn't fit. Maybe you could give Zerg and Protoss a new, stronger unit? That wouldn't work either - unlike with the unit health example above - it would not directly impact unit survivability in combat which is exactly what upgrades and veterancy would do.

The only forseeable way to really balance a Terran veterancy would be to remove the upgrades at the same time, leaving upgrades for Protoss and Zerg. That would be the best choice. Of course, I am totally against it. The Starcraft upgrade system is a PERFECT form of veterancy in of itself, and I don't believe that it should be changed.

Just my thoughts.

 

Everyone keeps talking about how having unit upgrades from veterancy would be imba, but everyone also seems to be overlooking the idea that zeratull11 stated (i think it was him)

Units could be promoted on a PER-UNIT basis. Not unit-wide. Per unit. One marine at a time. One tank at a time. One reaper at a time. Of course it would be imbalanced if all of a sudden ALL marines had +1 damage, without any balancing to counteract it in other races.

Units would not get upgraded on a standard for all units, it would be a sliding scale. One tank would not be promoted twice for killing 10 zerglings. A reaper would not kill 5 ultras and still need another kill to be promoted. The kills-needed would be specific to each unit, and the units-killed would be a secondary variable in the equation.

 

@ninerman owerup: Yea, could not have said it any better. Nice post buddy, makes perfect sense. I want to hear what someone will say to oppose this... It is gonna be tough!

 

lol.... uhhhh how about my post?

 

u didnt address the hp/survivability issue...

 

I don't see why I have to if ninerman13's post assumes that the veterancy would apply to all the units all at once, like a research/upgrade...my post shows that having it specific for each individual unit would mean maybe 3 out of 20 or so marines would be more than a garden-variety marine, so it wouldn't be a momentous thing when a unit gets promoted. I'm not saying it's a bad post ninerman13, its actually really well put and thought out, but what I said changes the situation

 

Well, you both state two very strong points. I am only siding with ninerman because I dont think it fits the feel of sc2. In sc, ur units were not meant to live long. You were never meant to value a specific unit's life more than others.

 

I still have no idea whether or not I want this in SC2...I used to love the veteran apocalypse tanks and Kirov airships in RA2...RAPE. I wonder what it would be like in SC2
but I don't want it to effect the gameplay in a negative sense

my post was just to keep people from continuing to post replies saying that "this would be imba" when we've already discussed how it could be fixed

 

Ok, there have been a lot of good posts for both sides, now i'll say why i think vet system would be good for terrans.

As we all know terran is the most defensive of the 3 races. They also have the hardest time(or used to) to build a strong economy. Zerg doesnt even need to be commented, and protoss can just send in 1 probe and mass buildings pretty fast + the warp in makes it very easy to defend.

Now, weak economy would mean less units which means weaker offensive. So if the terran is pushed into turtleting he will eventually be cracked down by non stop offense from the opposing faction.

Wave after wave after wave after wave, they will wear down the terran.

Veterancy will help terran to improve their defense as the game evolves, and will make the enemy think before he just mindlesly charges in knowing he can lose that whole army and its ok, cuz he can just build it again and start all over with nothing changed.

 

I dunno kutrovsky. I know that when I play protoss I do not charge in mindlessly against anybody. I value their units cuz they cost so much and take a while to warp in. ALOT changes when protoss loses an army. As for the zerg, I do charge in mindlessly because that is the point of zerg they have cheap units and can quickly recreate armies. not alot is lost...

 

@ Nikzad - I did not mean for my post to assume that a veterancy would apply to all units at once. I know it wouldn't. I am saying that even on a unit-by-unit basis, with small changes in attack/armor, the upgrade system will be imbalanced. Little changes can have a large effect on the battlefield. Even if it is only 3/20 Marines that get this bonus, it is still imbalanced in the fact that all the Marines still have the potential to become ranked, and that the other two races don't have a similar veterancy system or way to counter that. I am assuming that, as suggested by this thread, only the Terrans have this ability. My post loses its points if all three races get this veterancy, or if Terran upgrades are eliminated in favor of veterancy.