SHOULD blizzard impliment veterancy for terrans?

If you read the end of the Viking description it say:

Getting pilots for vikings is hard because of its design, but the talanted pilots manage to live longer and become veterans and aces(thats what it says pretty much, go read it lol)

So it doesnt seem to far fetched,and it fits Terrans more than zerg and protoss, although i agree that its a little too much C&C, i still have some feelings towards the idea.

 

No way.

A) You would have to do this for all three races, otherwise it'll be imbalanced. It's not like having certain units and different spells - you can counter those. How can you counter increasing power, when your race can't increase in power themselves?
B) Not Starcraft. It belongs in other games, but again, not here.
C) The Starcraft upgrade system is great, and very balanced. Having to research varying levels of armor and weapons is awesome. And each race can do it, so the only time Player A will be ahead of Player B is if Player A is better than Player B.

Yes, it would make sense as far as the Terran lore (like the Viking), but it would make just as much sense for other races. Veteran in combat = more effective. But once again, for the reasons above, a resounding NO in my opinion.

 

In my last post I said that the only game that uses veterancy good is Company of Heroes. Now I will explain why. The Nazis have veterancy as an upgrade. This fits the Nazis because they had lots of veterans by the time the game happens (D-Day) and if you do good (get enough to get the upgrade) then it justifies bringing in veteran troops. The Americans have to earn the veterancy. This fits with the Americans because they just landed there on the beach with none or little combat experience. So, they build up experience in the way that some of you are suggesting here. Now for why this works good. The damage system for CoH includes accuracy vs different types of units, critical hits on different parts of various units (the back of tanks), damage deflection for other parts of tanks and light armored vehicles, and the usual damage/armor. Because of all these different factors you can slightly change one of them and it wont make an overpowering difference but it will make enough of a difference to want it.

Giving something +1 armor in StarCraft is in line with an expensive and time consuming armor upgrade. And yes, while this does give it to all your units, getting +1 armor on top of that just from killing some units is imbalanced. Say there are 3 rank levels and 3 upgrades. Each rank gives units +1 armor and each armor upgrade gives this unit +1 armor. A level 3 unit with full armor upgrade would have 6 armor. This is ridiculous especially against units that do low damage because those units end up doing almost no damage to the unit (a marine would do 1 damage to it each hit).

The same applies to increasing damage. A level 3 marine with all weapon upgrades would do 12 damage, twice that of a regular marine. In addition to the armor upgrades and bonuses from level 3 it would have 6 armor. Add to that the shield (i forget if this adds 10 or 15) and you've got a 50hp 6 armor 12 damage marine. With medics and proper micro you could get a lot of marines up to that level. Also, with a leveling system you would be more worried about keeping your high level units around (same reason people keep their heroes around). So, a good player could get lots of veteran units with their ridiculous bonuses that make them twice as effective as regular units.

Bottom line, there are not enough factors in the damage system to make veterancy a viable option. Unless you want to take away armor/damage upgrades for terran.

For a marine? thats ridiculously imbalanced. Thats more than all the upgrades for the marine put together

 

for the people who argue it's imbalanced or cannot be balanced, you are not looking at the bigger picture, this feature can be easily balanced.

if implemented, veterancy would become one of many advantages that the terrans have, just like their other advantages such as buildings being able to lift off and fly and the ability to repair buildings and units.

why are people not complaining that's these features are imbalanced? because their impact on determining victory is small, yet not totally insignificant. All you need to do is make the power of these veteran upgrades suitable and not game breaking then it'll be balanced.

many people argue along the lines of:

those vet units won't survive forever, and they won't keep getting more powerful, for me 3 levels of veterancy is enough.

as long as and the impact of veterancy and the difficulty of obtaining veteran units in normal game play is properly controlled then there isn't much of a problem, just like you won't automatically lose if your army only have 2 armor upgrade where as 1/4 of the enemy's army has 3 armor.

 

Now that i think about it, veterancy can be easily balanced.

Paragon you're talking its imba from the numbers you give, reducing those numbers could easily fix things.

For instance, rank one = 10% faster attack speed or, 5hp

Rank 2 = 1 armor

rank 3 = 1 damage

So in a 3 rank system a rank 3 marine will have 1 damage 1 armor and 10% more damage than a normal marine...

Imbalanced? No? Usefull? Yes.

 

The bottom line is that there is already a veterancy system that works wonders - the upgrades! Starcraft does not need more than that.

And it IS by definition imbalanced if one race can 'level' while the others cannot unless they remove the upgrades for said race. And a big no to that.

*Edit - to clarify my arguments a little bit. It would not be imbalanced if all three races had veterancy, but it would be bad. It would be imbalanced if one race had veterancy, and it would be bad.*

 

We discussed this to some extent under the "C&Cization of Starcraft 2" thread, here is part of one of my posts:

I think this would help people who scream of imba accept it if it does indeed happen, but I don't have an opinion either way yet on whether I want it or not.

One way people might exploit it, would be to make units, send them out to get kills, then bring them back once they have veterancy. Repeat the process until you have many veteran units and can use those stats to your advantage in one huge-ass attack

 

You can make smaller units to scale easier and bigger units to scale slower

i.e : 1 marine needs to have 5-10 kill to rank up, whereas a battlecruiser may need 15-30 and so on.\

Edit: yah what Nikzad say.

 

What if there was only one rank up, and it was at say, 5 kills. The unit would receive a small damage or hp boost, and would never again be able to get better. I don't think it would be overpowered, I think it fits well with the terrans here's why:

the protoss are already at the peak of physical strength, they basically cannot get any better.
Zerg are crated for a purpose, their fighters are not created to think, they are created to kill. They cannot get any better.

It makes sense for the terrans, it is not overpowered, and it gives them a unique feel.

 

I agree I think the vet system is very terran like.

 

this is not CnC3?

i say its about time the ranking system is applied to terran in starcraft 2. who cares about CnC? starcrat 2 will pwn CnC with its own ranking system.

Imba because other races don't have it?

this is the simplest issue that can be easily balanced. give the protoss the super unit mothership back with a NERF DOWN BLACK HOLE. and give the zerg a max cap of 250! etc. ^^

 

No, it just feels too C&C (not that it's a bad game but...) to me. They can keep the kill counter from the original but I don't think veterancy is a good idea, especially for just terrans.

 

See what i think is going to be the difference though is that its just a nice boost to have, its not something you'll look forward to like in CnC.

There a rank 3 apocalypse tank simply destroys everything.

A minor boost to damage/hp/attack speed/armor is not something so huge to micro around one unit.

Its just nice to have a tiny bit of extra damage.

 

too much of CnC? why? all races in CnC have the ranking system. starcraft only has TERRAN for it.

I say add it! its cool to see some of you marines have high ranks. and in pro games the commentator will go, the terran private blah blah.. etc. definitely a terran thing. imagine it!

i think blizz has already thought of something like this before, but red alert got the idea first. and now is the time for starcraft to implement it as well. come on! new stuff for stracraft 2 that will make it MORE competitively NEW. its a GOOD IDEA, the only issue is how much it will affect the gameplay. and i say it can be balance so why not.

 

Excellent idea, but I think people would just love the system so much they would use less the other races.
blizz would have to make something really cool for the protoss and zerg to balance it out.

 

...i cant see any way to balance it out ina game like this... for fairness, the units would have to be weaker to start with, but that would make it harder to level up, and it would take longer for them to even out, let alone get an advantage from

 

nicely said.. and btw, how can u turn the tide of war vs a terran with the ranking system? if u go all in with 200/200 army and gets pownd once, then all the terran units will be impossible to kill, and its gg

the only way it MIGHT work is if its only implemented into the single player campaign games, now that would make sense....


Edited out quotes. Please read the forum rules and refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

 

if they can mangae to kill 250 guys with a unit, they are way out of your league in tersm of microing, and you'd lose anyways

 

Hmmm What if they gave each race there own thing that ultimately equal out. Ex

The terrans get 1-3 verterancy upgrades at X number of killss. (X is dertimed by balance) We already know why this fits the terrans.

The protoss could upgrade all of there gear 4 times instead of 3 like the other races. This fits the protoss because they are suppose to be the most technologicly advanced and this would be a way to make that obvious.

The zerg could have increased unit cap like what was mentioned earlier maybe increase it by something like 15-25 (50 is way to much). The zerg are swamers and we all know this.

All of these upgrades would be useful around the late game because they extend to boundaries for each team but you havre to reach that boundary to have these upgrades actualy be helpful. (I know that the terrans could get the veterancy upgrades earlier than the other races will max out but it would still take time to have enough veteran units to see a reall diference)

 

4 instead of 3 for protoss? hardly balanced unless you nerfed the toss or their upgrades