September Discussion of the Month: Zerg Creep

For the Terran buildings moving, people do use the buildings as part of their strategies, although it is risky and you can only expect slayer_boxer to do it. Boxer sometimes lift off of the barracks to a dangerously close location to the enemy's base and starts building marines while using the barracks to block the SCV's exit. I usually use my barracks as a gate to block ramps, and lift them up to allow units in/out.

Having an ability to build faster is a bit too much IMO, even if the research is expensive it can only cost like 400min and 400gas max because anything more than that is just useless and unecessary. Probably no one will reach a tier that high to just get the ability, the most you'll need in a full scale war is 3-5 unit building structures of each type. However I think it would be better if you can spend extra resource to speed up building structures like in WC3 by having additional units aid in building (3 peasants building 1 town hall for example).

I like the increase radius of the pylon idea

 

I agree.

I am for the idea +10% to all zerg units, and -10% to enemy units, and maybe a tier2 or 3 upgrade "+5% extra bonus on the creep move effects", that would apply on the +10% and -10% as well, and another upgrade that would be like "+50% health renegeration" (when on creep).

This way, the player's (zerg) units will not have that crazy +30% extra boost in their own bases, marines and zealots etc will still be able to retreat and be microed properly, in late games, zergs players may want to retreat for a while to "heal" their tropps (including those damn ultralisks that need forever to fully recover), and enemy zergs units will have no special effects applied on them (as both change apply on them). which would sound in the same time realistic and gameplay-enhancing.

But I agree too a unit in the game should be able to remove a piece of creep for a while.

 

What if that Terran idea was an ability to use more than one SCV to speed up the building being built. Age of Empires style. Say the ability allowed a 2nd unit to help build it. That might work. Well it's the same thing as the WC3 thing you said. But I'd make it an ability not cost extra resources each time you use it. But yeah I agree it'd have to be carefully used or it'd be unbalanced. Either too good or simply never used.
And by high tier one I meant like the 2nd building you build or something. One before tier 2.

And thanks about the Protoss idea.

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A creep killing ability could be really good. If it cost the right amount of energy to use. Not to much and not to little. Ah but would it be fair to kill the creep where a zerg building is so that building is now unusable. Like rushing in to disable their buildings quickly before the main assault. Would that unbalance things too much?

 

I'm not a big fan of upgradable creep*, but:
A slight variation.
Have the hatchery updgrade available to enhance creep +10% Movement speed
Then Lair +10% again
Then Hive +10% again.

If 30% it is too much early game, then spread it over the 3 tech upgrade. The player will have the choice to upgrade it or not.

I don't think that 30% is too much, if they came up with the idea maybe it was because Zerg was lacking somewhere else. I think it is a great idea, let them balance it up.

*Upgradable creep would be kind of difficult to explain lorewise. If a you got the Hive upgrade then your Overlord can drop enhanced creep.. that does not make sense. Marines on the field of battle that can suddenly use StimPack after the upgrade is done does not make sens either : / (He had it on him all this time? Could not use it?)

 

I like the change, but I think they took it the wrong way. I think enemies units on the Creep should be slowed down, rather than the Zerg units speeding up. It accomplishes the same thing, giving Zerg a strategic advantage on the Creep, but it also makes more sense and makes up for the loss of Ensnare, which was very useful. Since the Creep is alive, it could be latching onto intruders or simply just acting as a swampy pit to walk through; Protoss and Terran obviously would have a rough time moving forces through it.

 

What if SC 2 units didn't auto upgrade like in SC 1. They had to go to a certain building to get the upgrades. But the new ones would be upgraded of course. Would that work or just be silly.

Lore wise yes. Gameplay wise? I dunno.

 

also doesnt Zerg already have the "speed increase upgrade" for both hydras and lings? it would make them the ultimate defenders.

i like how the terran buildings are able to go up and down but i have so far never really done much about it except holding a choke point, and lifting barracks when i want units out. a speed increase would be kool. and i think we would see more of terran players using the ability to fly around a whole base.

the protoss idea of making the pylon ange farther is also nice. it also means you can have morebuildings for less pylons. and making the phase prism would be awesoem since you could build more in one area.

-Zerks

 

@the8thark: Considering Stim pack and weapon's upgrade, most probably. But if you think about Zerg, they don't grow sharper blades from nowhere, and they don't replace them by going at the Hive. Hey cerebrate gimme a new pair of pincers please... yes +1 for me and my bros. Only new Zerg units get the upgrade?

Game play wise, it would be a huge step to take and crap load of balance for the 3 races.

@Redlazer: Units like Archons/Templar/ and Workers that hovers would not be affected?

 

Very good point Vodka! I'de say that's fair, it would just add another aspect to those units who hover. Or if you want them to be slowed; the Creep is a living thing, for units fairly close to the ground, the Creep can stick out some tendrils to latch on.

 

I believe I read somewhere that zerg buildings out of the creep will just start taking damage, but still function. I could be wrong, but even if I am wrong that sounds like the best way to work. cause if the building is useless then an ability to dissipate creep would be imbalanced IMO.

 

That wouldn't sound too unbalanced or unrealistic to me, as the creep colony would be more considered like a pylon than a turret in progress this way, with the slight difference than focusing on destroying the creep colonies first will not disable the buildings around, just help removing the creep and disabling the regeneration of the affected buildings.

 

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I'm undecided at the moment. On one hand, it'll maked it easier to micro Zerg units offensively and defensively. On the other hand, the pathing this time around might make it too easy to micro Zerg units.

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
As far as ZvZ goes, I don't think the change will have much of an impact. They both have the same advantages, so it really comes down to the skill of the player. With TvZ//PvZ games, the worry comes from lack of creep control. Right now you can only take preventative measures to keep the Creep away, such as killing tumors/Hatcheries before they hatch, and Overlords before they get in position to puke creep. Perhaps it would be a good idea to increase the speed at which creep receeds.

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
I like it - It shows that Blizzard is really trying to make the races unique in every aspect, and to make creep a valuable resource instead of an annoying limitation.

Do you think these changes should result in disadvantages for Zerg off Creep?
Nope.

Should Creep bonuses apply to Zerg units on enemy Creep?
Creep is creep, I don't see why bonuses shouldn't apply.

How will this change early game strategies?
I bet we'll see much more Overlord scouting early game, in order to initiate a creep rush as soon after tier 2 as possible.

 

I think the main advantage of creep boosting speed is that it'll increase worker harvesting speed. The creep may not allow the drones to pull the 5 units of minerals faster but they are able to transport it to the hatchery faster.

 

"Zerg units except Drones can now move 30% faster on creep"
...

I haven't yet read this thread properly and I'll post my take on it later.

 

What do you think of the speed increase on Creep?
I feel that the Zerg deserve to have the speed increase. It makes it more Zerg-like being as now Protoss and Terran players will find the creep as a threat instead of just getting in the way. It is now the perfect reason to expand your creep. I think there should be some way for other players to get rid of the creep faster though.

How do you think this change will effect Zerg, Protoss and Terran?
Well it will make the Overlord a really effective unit and make the Zerg much more annoying to fight. It will definitely make the Protoss and Terran think twice before attacking a Zerg base.

Do you like or dislike the change? Why?
I really do like this change. It gives the Zerg more depth and makes them seem more alien which is the way it needs to be. Creep is what they need to survive and I think it is good that gives them a better bonus than just building space.