September Discussion of the Month: Mothership

http://www.starcraft-source.com/unit-database/protoss/mothership.html

There you see the amount of resources needed to build a MotherShip.

However I believed that just 300 for crystals are not a lot !

Worse : the health and shield !! Just 300 and 300 ! Of course this is a unit, but I would give 400 health (like for the nexus) and 400 shields, plus 500 crystals to build this unit.

What's your opinion ?

 

Do you think the Protoss Mothership should be a unique unit (1 per player maximum) or should you be able to build more than one? Why?

I think that it should be only one unit because its mothership what kind of mothership is that if u can make alot of it it just does not fit as a ultimate weapon of protoss.

What do you think about the Mothership's abilities? (Time Bomb, Cloaking Field, Planet Cracker, Black Hole (currently out))

If u can make only one mothership, black hole should definitely come back because i do not find it overpowered at all with all that energy the ship use in that ability and besides its only usefull on air units so once thats used its not gonna have enough for another till its full again which gives time for other air units i.e battlecruisers to completely crush it or lockdown if its going to come back but this time low duration time since its an "ultimate weapon" of protoss.

Planet Cracker should be the same as the first demo if its only one. Again MS does not have that alot of energy and all the energy would take a long time to get back.

Time Bomb should stay as well but this one not only the missile will slowly come to it but units that went through will not be able to move. that way it gives protoss some mobility in offense as well as defence and again the energy that is used is cost alot so it really gives protoss an edge and completely stands out upon all three races.

Cloaking field should be cut if its only 1 coz thats sc1 and it would really be nice to have alot of new mechanics rather than using old stuff from the original.

Additional Feedback you would like to give:

Blizzard keep up the good job on putting new mechanics and new units. Those people who keep saying its wc3 does not completely understand starcraft. Another thing is that those people who does not like it is just people who wants to play a better graphics of sc1.

Carriers should either axed out or nerf to tempest since ms is the new or should be the capital ship because if u think about it aiur is destroyed by the zerg and because of that they are forced to create another new air unit. an air unit which resembles a unity between the survivors of aiur and the dark templars The Tempest.

 

Hi, this is my first post.. even if i've read and followed everything on this forum for a good while now.
I just posted this on the Bnet forums but i'd like to share it here as well so here it is, thanks for listening to my loong rant

Hello everyone. Especially you folks at Blizzard.
First of all I would like to give THANKS for bringing us the best games - ever. I've been a vivid fan of all your work since day one and have played, finnished, replayed, read about and LOVED all of your games to the core.

I know as much about the Starcraft and Warcraft universes as I do about modern history - which is a lot. I'm not a freak - just an avid fan =)

I do read alot on the net but i rearly post since there are a lot of people out there with good ideas. But now I feel I must step in and make myself heard, especially on the MS issue.

When you announced the MS I was blown away, I mean it's the ultimate RTS move. Just magical. And I know as a creator of a game it must be hard having to face the community all the time and having to nerf- and reinforce your ideas. So here it is - my final idea of how the MS SHOULD be..


* Do you think the Protoss Mothership should be a unique unit (1 per player maximum) or should you be able to build more than one? Why?

<YES. For the love of everything - YES. 1 MS/player. Why? It's a coo-hoo-freakin' Mothership, that's why. And it is the single most astonishing idea for an RTS without it ruining a game. It is perfect for the Protoss and the back story is great. Imagine your playing against a protoss. Everything seems to be going great and then BAM! A fleet backed up by a MS showes up the the game is ON. Beautiful. It should be menacing, beautiful and useful at the same time without beeing a definitive game-winner. As I know from your other work, no single unit ever is.>


* What do you think about the Mothership's abilities? (Time Bomb, Cloaking Field, Planet Cracker, Black Hole (currently out))

<This is how it SHOULD BE - the definitive list..
TIME BOMB - deployable anywhere with mid-size AoE. Bigger than the one currently presented on the site, more like the original animation - but deployable anywhere ofcourse.>

CONSTRUCTION - Should be able to warp in anywhere on the map. ~1min build time. And here's an idea for balancing.. when the MS starts to warp in every player hears a loud warping sound so they know a MS will soon be on the battlefield. Another idea is that in the beginning of the warp a large blue "nova" spreads out from the MS and expands all over the map - visible to all players. This way every player knows - somethat accurate - where the MS is beeing warped in.

CLOAKING FIELD - NO! If cloaking is required for gameplay - bring back the arbiter, the MS really does not fill this role in any way. It really feels akward.

PLANET CRACKER - One beam, lose the small "side beams" and give it an AoE damage radius á lá scarab and a fitting AoE animation. Perfection.

BLACK HOLE - Ah.. the Black Hole, I know this has been one hot poato since it was unvailed and I have to admitt I've thought about and I definitly think it should stay. Here's how it should work..

Casting: Fixed mana + mana/second.(like cloak). If the casting MS is destroyed - so is the hole and the trapped ships swirling inwards are "released"

Amount of ships targeted: infinite, but with a 1 second cooldown. So after 5 seconds - 5 ships have been drawn in. Preferably the 5 closest to the Hole itself.

Targets: enemy only.

AoE: LARGE, almost screen-size as the meaning is to get the enemy fleet out of there - or let them stay and pay the price.

This is perfect. Why? It CAN create ultimate havoc - but only if the enemy decides to stay. It's balanced since it would take 12s to suck in 12 mutalisk, wich is a long time gamewise. It CAN kill a LOT of other capital ships, but only if the enemy is stupid enough to JUST bringing capital ships. A good counter for a Hole on your BC's is to move all your small ships(like the supposed Predator) close to the whole so they get sucked in first. Oh, other MS can't be targeted with BH wich creates a really cool dynamic if two MS-reinforced fleets are pitted against eachother!


* Additional Feedback you would like to give

Sincerely - there is no job on this planet I would like to have more than working with Blizzard on game development! I've got so many ideas! =) I'm sure you'll(Blizzard Team) figure this one out eventually and hope you take my ideas in consideration since a lot of communities and friends seem to take to them as well =)

So in short.. 1MS/player. Orginal abilities, although tweaked - but not nerfed. Higher damage on regular attack!(The scv's in the flash..) High HP/shield and HIGH cost(1000/1000?)


Finally - Thank you Blizzard.

 

Mother ships are just fine the way they are, if blizzard really reads the forums i want them to know if the game play of SC1 is going to be the same as SC2 in terms of speed then having one Mother-Ship per person is a load of crap. The game moves to fast for you to be worried about one over the top ship. The protoss dont need to limit them selfs to one unit. I just dont see the protoss doing that. if Blizzard really reads the forums i'm ganna suggest something and i hope you read it. If u decide to make the Mother Ship a hero type unit it needs to be expensive and hard to get to(3ed tier). If you choose a unlimited path make them expensive but yet not that expensive and nerf down the power of there ablitys.

P.S. if the mother ship stays a hero plz, PLZ! redue Black Hole. it's over the top.

 

What do you think about the Mothership's abilities? (Time Bomb, Cloaking Field, Planet Cracker, Black Hole (currently out))

cloaking field seems like it would be useless because A) the MS cant do anything when using it and B) by the time you get the MS, your opponents should have plenty of detectors, rendering the ability useless.
If cloaking field stays, i would like it with a different unit, and be passive like the arbiter was.

Time bomb im fine with.

Planet Cracker is good, but i liked it more when it was a bunch of small beams under the whole mothership rather than one large beam.

I really liked the Black hole ability, and i would really like to see it return to the MS.
if it was overpowered, it could be turned into a AA DoT or reduce the radius or give units a chance to escape it.

Do you think the Protoss Mothership should be a unique unit (1 per player maximum) or should you be able to build more than one? Why?

I really liked the original 1 per player MS, as it added a bit of variety to the game. in SC1, if you could build it, you could have an army of it, but with the unique MS that wouldnt hold true and prevent it from being overused with such amazing abilities it has.
I really dislike the new MS, it just makes the game more of the same, rather than some great new opportunities to make it amazing.

 

Isn't it a bit early to be calling anything the September _____ of the Month?

 

The cloaking field ability is maybe useless against the computer or experimented players, but are useful against newbies.

 

If it were that easy Arbitters would be rather useless don´t you think? cloaking Buildings is quite powerfull, you just need to destroy an enemys detectors to stop a attack on your base.

 

The enemy is likely to employ more than one detector during an attack, so it is highly unlikely that they'll be very easy to take out.

 

Do you think the Protoss Mothership should be a unique unit (1 per player maximum) or should you be able to build more than one? Why?

I think MS should be a unique unit with all the following abilities. Protoss is a race of heroes, unique MS can fit in this concept perfectly. while a nerfed version of MS will decrease its value in battles, so it should contain all abilities as announced before.

What do you think about the Mothership's abilities? (Time Bomb, Cloaking Field, Planet Cracker, Black Hole (currently out))

Time Bomb, Planet Cracker are OK to me and many other SC fans. As abitory has been axed in SC2, so give the MS with Cloaking field ability is also OK.
As to the Black Hole, present Mothership has not air attack ability, black hole can threaten enemy air force in battles. Instant black hole can destroy all enemy air force , that is too powful, as someone has suggested, we can add a red dot to Black Hole too, and a time delay in exerting this ability.Or decrease its radius to give your opponent some chance to escape.

Additional Feedback you would like to give

I have another suggestions, the number of MS can also determined by the population or the number of Nexus. If your population is over 80, you can get one, and when it reaches to 160, you can get two. In this means , you can have two MS if you want, but that depends your development in econemy.
The other method is based on the Nexus, if you can expand to build one more Nexus, you can get one more MS, in some words, Nexus is the pylon for MS. And MS should be build outside of stargate, but over the Nexus it is born. MS should also has the ability to recall units to its basement to protect its Nexus.

 

<Do you think the Protoss Mothership should be a unique unit (1 per player maximum) or should you be able to build more than one? Why?>

<The Mothership should definitely be a unique unit, not only does this fit in story wise, it will make the Mothership's role in the game more clear cut. Right now, with the multiple Motherships, they are just like carriers with spells, I know that currently they can't attack air, (which in itself is absurd, how can the focal point of the space traveling protoss fleet not be able to attack air? Taking away the Mothership's AA capability feels like a forced compromises that doesn't make any sense) still it's ground attack overlaps with carriers in it's role of heavy base assault. and i wouldn't imagine a player massing both carriers and Motherships in the same game, which makes one of them redundant. Most likely carriers since with its spells, the Mothership would be generally more useful in more situations, the carrier then becomes a AA special unit, which is not it's intended role.>

<wouldn't a 1-per-player hard capped Mothership make it just like a hero from WarCraft 3? Can it even be possible to balance the MS as a super unit?>

<I don't understand why so many people are always theorizing and dreaming up balance issues and complaining about them when they haven't even played the game yet. I think it's the general consensus that starcraft is the best balanced RTS in the history of gaming that everyone is afraid to touch it and thinks that the balance system is like a fragile glass and every new and innovative idea will break this "glass" entirely and mess up everything.

Innovative mechanics is what made starcraft the greatest RTS game ever, things like 3 completely unique races, lifting buildings, cloaking + detection, carrier + interceptor, creep, siege mode etc were revolutionary in its days and they are what made starcraft great. We should be trying our hardest to fit in all the best new and innovative mechanics instead of scrapping them just because many people "think" they will cause balance problems that can't be fixed. One super unit for the protoss would be a unique mechanic for the protoss which will further separate the 3 races.

below is a quote of me from another thread about balance:

So whether people think the Mothership is a hero or not, it can still be balanced.>

<What do you think about the Mothership's abilities? (Time Bomb, Cloaking Field, Planet Cracker, Black Hole (currently out))>

<The black hole shown in the first protoss demo is indeed OP in some situations, however you've got to remember it cost energy to use and with only one Mothership, no one can spam black holes all over the place. realistically the black hole should cost certain amount of energy that the MotherShip can only use it once every 5 minutes without using any other abilities. if it still proves to be OP then i have the following idea:

Instead of giving the Mothership the ability to cast black hole, make the Mothership generate a black hole upon death, like the ones formed after the supernova of giant stars.>

 

i reckon that is just stupid its meant 2 be an ULTIMATE UNIT not a 1 cast for every spell stupid unit. it should be able to use its spells whenever it has the energy 4 it!

 

its just a suggestion. i may just exaggerating because i find the skills specially the black hole as seen in the WWi demo to be too strong and there are many people complaining so that is just my ONE of many suggestions i can think of.

read: hit and run, back to cast another black hole etc. mothership has a lot of hp cant be lock down etc can survived etc. comes back to cast time bomb etc again. and i based it on the WWI mothership.

 

The discussion topics and their frequency are up to Blizzard.

 

No reason we should be bound to them.

 

its a blizzard based discussion so they can get the feedback they need when they need it. so yes there is a reason to be bound to them.

 

Way I figure it we already have enough MS threads so we just give Blizzard the feedback from them.

 

this isnt just for us though, its for all SC2 forums, so blizz can easily get feedback from everyone

 

Yes and I am sure that there has been things said in the other threads not said here (like my blackhole suggestion) and most of the stuff here has already been said before anyway so why not just dump all the other threads into one and forward it to Blizzard. It ends up being the same either way.

That being said.

MS SUper unit once more please Black hole back

 

A Mothership report is being compiled.

A lot of suggestions are being included.