Scout + Corsair vs. Pheonix

to counter that pheonix should cost more and have some more hp

 

Pheonix is petty cool and it has overload which is useful but I still wish the Corsair can come back because it can do that Ability to make ground targets not be able to hit it unless it moves but the Missle Turret and other base defenses cant do a thing.

 

Pheonixes overloading reminds me of those musketeers back in the 1700s. Shoot, reload for 5 mins, shoot, reload for 5 mins, continue until dead or victorious.

 

Corsairs were crap... i remember moments when 6 Valkiries took down 12 of them in one-two shots
And wraiths just rape them... Comsat sweep, slash Observer and by by Tossy airforce ^^

Scouts on the other hand were TOUGH... 12 of them upgraded on max were able to take down zerg GA turret with one salvo... and thats means a lot they still got assf&@# by wraiths but any flying unit in SC1 got that (with the exception of valkirie+comsat combo ^^)


Offtopic on
I will miss Wraiths.. i loved fast stealth runs after tanks plucked some detectors.... Wraiths FTW....
Offtopic off

 

You're right. On paper scouts were really tough, and corsairs weren't so tough; that is, if the paper had a little smudge where the cost of the unit should be.

Scouts were simply too weak for the amount of resources you had to put into them. For the amount of resources and time you had to spend creating a fleet of scouts, you could have twice as much corsairs. A fleet of 24 corsairs will decimate a fleet of 12 scouts.

Corsairs also had an aoe attack, allowing them to efficiently take down masses of enemy air units in a relatively short about of time.

Corsairs complimented the carrier better than the scout could too. The corsairs aoe attack decimated scourge, while its disruption web rendered ground defenses useless, allowing a carrier to wreck havoc on enemy forces.

The scouts has only had two advantages over the corsair. It excels against heavily armored air units, and it could attack ground units. Unfortunately for the scout, lightly armored air units were far more common in a normal game of Starcraft than their heavy brethren, and generally, they were far more effective. Even If your opponent happened to get tons of carriers/battlecruisers/devourers, a few dragoons backed up by an arbitar and a few high templar could take down a large force of heavy air more effectively and with fewer losses.

In short, the corsair takes down the more common air units and cover the carrier's weaknesses better than a scout. If your opponent happens to go heavy air, other Protoss units can counter it far more effectively, and these units will still be useful once your opponent switches to ground.

Anything the scout can do, other Protoss units can do better for a cheaper price. The only thing the scout contributes to the Protoss forces is its ability to hit and run, and it can't even do that right until you upgrade its speed!

Do you really want to put all that time and resources into a hit and run unit? One that is inferior to the hit and run units of the other races?

Even I underestimated the power of the corsair at first. However, once you learn how to use the little guy properly, you'll understand why he made the Protoss airforce the best in the game.

Now, as for the topic. From what Blizzcon goers have said, the Phoenix is far superior to both the scout and the corsair. In fact, it is currently incredibly overpowered. It is fast and cheap, the Protoss version of the Zerg mutalisk. Everyone remembers how overpowered those things were before Broodwar. Apparently, the Phoenix is easily capable of raiding a base, then quickly outrunning any of its counters, only to hit the enemy at another spot.

Personally, I found this kind of funny. Corsairs were originally put into Broodwar specifically to counter fast, hit and run air units like the Phoenix is turning out to be.

 

Nice speech, have a owerup: for that. Me too underestimated the power of the Corsair at first, until I got my entire fleet of mutas and guardians wiped out by 2 control groups of them. Welcome to the forums btw. ;D

 

i have done some exsperiments on your post Armadeo.

first up: yes the corsair DO kill 12 scouts when they are 24 so you are right there, not strange realy.
i also found the NO air unit is capable to kill of that amount of corsairs.
here is some exaples:

12 scouts vs 24 corsairs: the scouts where owned
16 varkyres vs 24 corsairs:the battle where longer, but still the corsair won bigtime
1 scout vs 2 corsairs: this is an interesting result, just when the scout fired its last shot to kill the last corsair it was killed itself , a draw!!

here is a thought, listen to the name of the scout.

mabye it was never intendet as a combat unit. it is fast and has a good vision range.
it is literaly a scout?



and Mikosz, 6 valkyers gets OWNED by 12 corsairs. this is all tested in game.

 

Corsairs are meant to be used against lightly armored targets, as their base damage is too low against heavily armored units like fully upgraded BCs. 1 damage per shot, hahaha!

 

Lol... and how would U do that first Valkyrie salvo and corsairs are down to half of their health... :>
12 Valkiries destroy all... well if u Micro like hell and divide corsairs and valks sit in one place of course u will win
I didnt said it was Fair combat i accidently foud an Corsair fleet with a ghost... and sent them into oblivion with a fast valk raid

But 90% of time units bunch up and simpy die to awsome valk aoe....

Still i say Wraiths > All especially when u learn how to search for Observers

 

I really like the Phoenix both in its design and how it will be used. So I think they should stick with it. People keep comparing balance details and how units were used to Starcraft 1 when even though they are preserving the same feel its a whole new game with new startegys, tactics and units.

 

i tested the fact in the map editor by putting 6 valkyres vs 12 corsairs, and the corsairs won.

test for your self if you dont belive me.

P.S do any one know if you need to upgrade overload, or do the phoenix have it from the begining. ???

 

Thanks for the powerup Wick. ^_^

At any rate, I assume that overload will have to be researched. Every ability in SC1, with the exception of the Queen's "infest a command center" (I think), required research of some sort. Overload will probably be researched at the fleet beacon.

 

it costs way too much to be used as a simple scout. and observers fill that role.

 

Lol, the scout actually being a scout. That's the funniest thing I've heard of.

 

corsair shouldnt be taken out.........i use them a lot in sc1 vs zerg

 

I guess the protoss still needs an air superiority fighter. So bring back the corsair!!!
I dont mind the scout because the phoenix is basically a scout with a overload ability.

 

they should have the Phoenix replacing the Scout,and bring the Corsair back.the Corsair was VERY useful,mainly against the Zerg,but also against the other races,to diable their static defenses.the phoenix only looks weak,it's actually really strong,from what people at blizzcon said.if the Protoss had Phoenixes,Corsairs,Warp Rays and Carriers,they could easily raid any base with low defenses with air units only.


but yes,Phoenixes and Corsairs in this game would be the best choice,imo...

 

disruption web=time bomb

 

They should bring back the Corsairs, they well useful and i thought they were cool but the thing is....they kill my overlords :'(

 

except it's not on a unit that may very well cost more than 950 minerals and 450 gas...