Protoss Shield Omnidiscussion.

About the arguement that a hardened shield works by getting stronger the harder it is attack and thus it being able to withstand a nuke.  I would argue that it is reasonable to say that such a correllation should diverge at some point.  That is to say, a hardened shield won't effect a weak attack but it will effect a strong attack but it will be overwhelmed by an extremely strong attack.  So there would be a middle ground where the shield is very useful but it fails to help against the extremes.

First, hardened shields not way make the unit weaker against weak attacks, they make them stronger against strong attakcs.  I would then ask what is silly about them being effective against medium attacks?  If a large number of attacks fall into the medium catagory it being effective against medium atacks is very useful.  If you include a yamato gun in the medium attack catagory that would mean a hardened shield is effective against everything but nukes and we all know how common those are.

Besides, if some ghost is hell bent on killing your imortal with a nuke, they'll just emp it right before the nuke hits.

 

I agree with Quanta, although I would just like to clarify one point.

The Hardened Shields is still effective against large attacks. It is able to drastically reduce the damage from both medium and large attacks, but are vulnerable to weak attacks and extreme attacks. The Protoss wouldn't have developed it to ward of medium strength attacks, because it is also effective against large strength attacks, like the Siege Tank in Siege Mode. However it would cost and take up so much time and money to develop these Hardened Shields further, so that they can also resist a Nuclear Strike. It would not have been worth because Nuclear Strikes are not that common. Instead of developing the Shields to resist Nukes, they have developed ways of preventing Nukes from dropping. The Protoss now have numerous ways to quickly close the ground between their units, and the Ghost that is dropping the Nuke.

 

I think it would be a fun mechanic to have a Protoss unit that is able to withstand even a nuke. It would be the only unit that would be pretty much immune to the nuke and, in effect, would be a perfect counter to a player who decides to nuke quite heavily.

Don't forget that the Ghost now has EMP and can render the Immortal's shields useless anyway.

 

Instead of the Protoss developing units that would survive a Nuclear Strike, they would be better off developing a way to stop the Nuke dropping in the first place. They already have the Observer as a Detector, and (assuming that the Phase Cannons are still detectors) the Phase Cannons are now able to move about their base, offering a much greater detection field. The Protoss have also developed ways to quickly close the gap between them and their adversary extremely quickly, which is essential for stopping a Nuke. Zealots can charge down enemy units, Stalkers can Blink to instantly get within range of the Ghost, and I am sure that more are yet to come. Protoss would much rather stop the Nuke from dropping than create a unit that can withstand the blast.

 

Protoss armor and shields worked fine against Firebats - stop saying they can't stop heat.

And Protoss are supposed to be the most advanced race. They trade numbers for superior power. It fits perfectly that they would design something that can even mitigate a nuclear blast, rather than try to dodge it. They're super advanced aliens - that's their entire concept. Their tech should always be superior to Terran tech. Terrans use guts, cunning, and an element of luck to compete.

 

The Mothership will be able to eliminate nuclear strikes even after they occur with the timebomb.

It will disarm, or at least delay, the Nuclear strike.

 

While story wise it would make sense for them to develop an anti missile system that is bad for gameplay because if the nukes can be stopped easily then whats the point of them? There isn't much of one.

Besides as Jon pointed out time-bomb stops nukes so you would have some defense you would jut have to be in the right place at the right time

 

If the terrans nukes are actual nuclear weapons that harness its ferocity from nuclear fission/fusion, then the nuke should destroy the protoss shield because nuclear missiles when they detonated, it releases EMP as a side effect

 

OK this is not a discussion about real world physics. It is a discussion about gameplay.

Also there are more topics that just the hardened shield to discuss

 

Nice Heavyarms2050! owerup:
If EMP gets rid of the shields (which it does) then the Immortals will be helpless against Nuclear Strikes. Can't argue that 'this isn't about real world physics', because all of the effects of the Nuke already exist in the game. Therefore, Immortals cannot survive Nuclear Strikes. No question. The might be able to survive Yamato Cannon, Bombardment, etc, etc, but they have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving a Nuclear Strike.
And when Nate said:

Remember that the Hardened Shield isn't the same piece of technology as the normal shield. The Hardened Shield is a new piece of technology that the Protoss have developed. Fire damage is damage over time, so even if the Hardened Shields did activate, then would reduce the damage to 10 per increment of time. Because the increments of time are constant, the fire damage would still do significant damage to the Immortal.

 

Adding real world science is part of gameplay, without it, it'll make the game cartoony.

 

I think you guys are forgetting the fact the nuke was also in SC1 and it didnt have a EMP effect then.  Also while real world physics does make the game seem real you still have to remember the fact the Protoss dont play by our understanding of physics. Also I am pretty sure the nuke did all of its damage at once in SC1 as well so drop the dot argument. This argument is becoming rather repetive because both sides can keep pulling lore reasons out of no where why something can or cant be done.

I personally think it would be really cool if Immortals could survive a nuclear blast because then they could truly live up to their namesake. Also its not like it would effect balance that much anyways how many people used nukes against just unit targets? Alll this feature would do is make Terran players drop marines on Immortals instead of nukes. I am curious though why you guys think nukes should kill anything? The belief that the nuke is unstoppable is incorrect if that is your beleief and even if its true ill take your unstoppable force and raise you an immovable wall...

 

OK fire is only has DOT effect when it ignites something.  I don't think shields burn so any damage from fire will come just from the initial hit of heat.

 

In SC1, the EMP radiation from the nukes were not strong enough to disrupt the Protoss equipment. And in SC2, after years of research, the protoss have developed a "Harden" shield that can withstand almost all attacks. Realizing this as a major threat, the terrans redesign their nukes so the nukes will emit a stronger electromagnetic pulse that can even disrupt the mighty Immortal shields and other when it detonate

 

In their infinite wisdom of having their numoruos units being stripped of their shields in SC1 the Protoss decided to create the hardened shields with the ability to ignore EMP entirely but there was an unfortunate side effect that made the shields block EMP only when they were activated by a powerful attack. (aka a nuke)

Like I said we can each keep pulling lore reasons from no where until we are blue in the face but it doesnt change the fact it comes down to just our own opinions.

So again:

 

Fire may only be a damage over time attack if the unit is on fire, but the actual heat wouldn't require it to. It is the temperature, not the fire, that would damage the Immortal. Fire might be blocked but heat would be internal.
Also,

It is impossible to create anything with an unstoppable force or immovable object (haha, World of Warcraft). The Nuke isn't unstoppable. With quick micros players are easily able to identify where the Ghost is in time. The Nuke is only unstoppable when players fail to do so. The Nuke should be able to kill anything because it is the utmost pinnacle of the Terran offense. It would just be lame if the most powerful weapon that the Terran were ever able to develop over their past five hundred and fifty five years of research and testing, is utterly useless against a single Protoss unit. The Protoss may be more technologically advanced, but the Terran's Nuclear Missile at least, should be able to absolutely obliterate all those (including Immortals) in the effected area. If the most powerful Terran weapon ever was useless against a tier 2 or 3 or whatever Protoss unit, then how do they even stand a chance at defending against the Protoss?
@ LordKerwyn.

The thing is that the EMP effects them at the exact same time as the explosion (if not, earlier). So as soon as they are hit by the Nuclear explosion, they would have already have their shields rendered useless.

 

oh don't worry the shields will protect us from the blast...oh crap our shields are down, this is going to hurt lol

 

@ItzaHexGor Thanks for actually answering my question instead of coming up with another lore reason why something can or cannot work.

Btw this is suppose to be a joke. I spent about 1 minute thinking about it to illustrate a point. (That is for those that didnt understand that )

Also ItzaHexGor you do make a good point for the nukes strength, but think of it this way. The Protoss have the technology to completely wipe out every living thing on a planet from orbit, where is that Protoss weapon? There is plenty of other examples like that as well in SC1. I have just come to live with the fact the Protoss cant use their most powerful weapons because it would destroy the balance of the game. I like the idea of Immortal being able to survive a nuke because it is a reminder that while the Terrans have the single most powerful weapon in the game, at the end of the day the Protoss have the technology to get around it.

Also if anyone brings up the Mother or the super-unit Mothership as an equal to the Terran nuke I will kill you where you stand because we all know throughout the campaign of SC1 the Protoss were wiping out planets from orbit and there wasnt anything the Terrans could do to stop it.

 

Last one I promise.
The protoss shield, according to starcraft wiki, is nothing more than multiple energy particles that are binded together to form a net forming a surface tension around a unit. That why when you see the protoss shield get hit by something, you'll see circular or octagonal shapes appear (see picture below). EMP is caused by protons from gamma rays produce from the nuclear explosion to produce high free electrons. Trap to by a planet's magnetic field, the electron will produce an oscillating electric current thus creating a pulse. The electrons are so small, that they can bypass the energy shield's "net holes" and the armor plating and ultimately disrupting the electrical equipment in a unit

[img width=333 height=247]http://starcraft2.com/features/protoss/images/immortal-thumb1.jpg[/img]

But anyways, i think the Immortal would be too powerful if they can survive a nuclear attack

 

@ Darkone. LOL! I don't think that they would have time to say "Oh crap, our shields have just gone down!".
It has already been shown in the Protoss game-play trailer that Immortals cannot survive the blast from a Nuclear Missile. It is probably to do with balancing, but it is also extremely logical. I know that this is subject to change, but they have obviously programmed the Immortal to not be able to resist a Nuke, which might mean that they aren't able to resist any ability, and only attacks.

I understand that they are able to eliminate planets in a single attack, but think about how much energy this would take. High Templar have the most highly developed psychic mind in the history of anything, and their most damaging attack is in an extremely small area and only lasts a short time. The Warp Ray harnesses the of a hybrid of energies from the Void of the Dark Templar, and of the Psionic Matrix from the Khala-bound Protoss, and even it isn't able to actually damage a plant. Lastly, the Mothership, which is built around an enormous Khaydarin Crystal which is further infused with an incredible amount of the Protoss' psionic energy. With this energy it is able to completely hide any nearby Protoss units from the enemy (Cloaking Field), it is able to use this energy to stop and tear apart the fabric of time (Time Bomb). The Mothership is able to take all of this energy, aim it directly at the surface of a planet, and unleash hell upon the effected area, yet it still does not damage the planet's surface. Imagine how much energy would be required to, not only physically damage a planet, but to destroy it altogether. They would only use this as a last resort to cmopletely purge any planets of the Zerg Infestation. It would be impossible to implement this ability into the game.
The power of the Terran's Nuclear Missile isn't enough to upset the balance of the game, and is easily affordable, although it is quite expensive, to the Terran. Just because the pinnacle of Protoss offense isn't able to make it into the game, it doesn't mean that the Terran's can't. I understand that you would like to be able to see a unit walk out from underneath the Nuclear explosion relatively unscathed, but I think that it just makes the game seem completely unrealistic. I know that it is just a science fiction game, but there is a heck of a lot of realism in it. I wouldn't want that realism to be destroyed.

EDIT: I agree with Heavyarms2050's post. It combines real world physics (that of the Terran's) with the lore of the Protoss physics. Thus, it makes sense that an Immortal cannot survive a Nuke, but what happens when they are hit with a Bombardment or Yamato Cannon is still uncertain. They should at least be able to survive a Bombardment, although they would be heavily crippled.