Protoss Omnidiscussion

Another four star vote here and after Gasmaskguy schooled me on differences between the Stalker and Immortal units. I don't really have any major problems with the Protoss. I would like to see them work on the back story a little more. Right know the biggest themes we have for the Protoss is they dug up a bunch of old units and one or two new Dark units. They're has to be more units that were made in collaboration between the factions of Protoss to move the story of the Protoss reunification forward. I'm not asking for more units in game, but some of the new units need to reflect reunification no matter how difficult it has been for the Protoss.

I agree that the little stuff is what they need to work on, like refining the stalker model. Ych9 nailed it perfectly the unit is cartoonish looking and doesn't fit the Protoss fleet. A unit that was designed by the Dark Templars should really be stealthy and deadly looking unit.

 

I gave it a three but seeing as most of my grievances were addressed by people who gave it a four I suppose it should be a four. Anyhow...

Mothership - I really dislike it's change in role from being the main aggressor to being the support unit. It just doesn't fit the lore ans seeing something that massive and intimidating just warp in some units leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Stalker/Dark Templar - I don't really like the current models for these guys it doesn't strike me as really nomadic. The DT model really does just look like a pali from WoW and that just doesn't seem right. Also if the Stalker looked just a bit more like the concept art I'd be happy.

High Templar - As much as I enjoyed using these guys in SC1 I wanted to see a little change, like at least one new spell, or a standard attack...

Colossus - Just waiting for it's attack animation to stop looking wimpy...

Archon - I would be insanely satisfied if mind control made a comeback... Or Dark Archons...

In General - I would have liked to see some more incorporation of the Dark Templar people. If not some more Dark units at least visible influences on building/unit models, or perhaps even Dark upgrades that incorporate the Void energy and Khalai energy. Just something.

 

My overview:

Probe: Nothing much can be done gameplay-wise. Obviously it's great that it retained its old building style, but that's not really anything special. I much preferred the StarCraft1 model, but wouldn't want too much time to be wasted on perfecting this one, as it's obviously not a high priority when it comes to modelling. I'm not too crazy about its portrait either though. It almost looks as though it's got a face. Overall, I'm content with it.

Zealot: Amazing. Gameplay-wise they're perfect. Charge works much more efficiently than their old Leg Enhancements, and Warp In suits them flawlessly. The model doesn't resemble the original too much, but it embodies everything that is Protoss. Their first model was great, but the updated one is perfect. On top of that, they've got a great unit-portrait. Overall, couldn't be happier.

High Templar: A great unit, but it seems fairly neglected at the moment. Only Psionic Storm and Hallucination, am I right? Well, Hallucination works much better than in StarCraft1 and I'm betting it'll wield much greater results than it used to. Still not sure if it'll be used too often though. Although Psionic Storm's been nerfed, I'd still tend to think that it'll be used over Hallucination, though when used on Immortals or Motherships, Hallucination could be quite devious, wasting focused fire and even potentially gaining a psychological advantage. The High Templar model does look a bit too over-the-top. Much preferred the StarCraft1 model. Haven't seen their portrait. Overall, they definitely need a fitting third ability, and their model needs to be fixed. Haven't seen their portrait. Overall, uncertain. Blizzard needs to make sure they fill the shoes of their former selves. Otherwise these new High Templar will be a let down.

Dark Templar: Gameplay-wise, they're great, and they're great because nothing's been changed. Their model, is a bit higgledy-piggledy. It's able to be made out, obviously, but, like the High Templar, it looks a bit over-the-top. In my opinion, they've tried to cramp too much into it, and the model's suffered because of it. Their weapon is perfect, but the Dark Templar itself, just isn't. It needs to be simplified. Less is more. They're going to be Cloaked anyway, so there's no sense in having them uber-detailed. Haven't seen their portrait. Overall, great, though needs some work on the model.

Archon: Just like the original Archon, right? Just with different reagents. In that regard, I definitely feel that they should have remained as 'Twilight Archons'. 'Archon' implies two High Templars, 'Dark Archon' implies two Dark Templar, so seeing as this can be made from any Templar, it definitely needs something else. It's supposed to signify the unification of High and Dark Protoss, not the complete assimilation of the Dark Templar. It needs a name that represents this unity and a minor ability, like its Feedback, along with its normal attack, to show the two sides coming together. Model? Great, though I'm not sure about the feet. Also, the psionic fire needs to surround it, and not just orbit around the Archon's waist. Overall, at the moment it's great as a High Templar's Archon, but more needs to be done to incorporate the Dark Templar's input. Not Mind Control, but something simple, like Feedback.

Stalker: What can be said? It's just awesome. The model, the unit, the animation, the bonus, the ability... Just awesome. It just fits so well. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from balancing its stats, has the Stalker been changed at all? Regardless, it's perfect. It truly embodies the Dark Templar and, yeah. Perfect. Overall, perfect.

Immortal: These are just great. Although they've got a major Egyptian influence, I think it works well for them. I'd like to see a close-up of how their torso is connected to their legs though. I'm not quite sure how Blizzard's done that at the moment. With their guns, I much preferred their original guns. They looked great and bulky, but now they look weak and flimsy. If there's anything that the Immortal isn't, it's weak and flimsy, so they've got to get their original weapons back. Lastly, I'm not too crazy about them having to research Hardened Shields. These are supposed to be the last of an otherwise extinguished resource for the Protoss, so I just feel they should be pre-equipped with their Hardened Shields. Overall, great unit. No major issues with it at all.

Nullifier: The Nullifier could easily go either way. The model is better than the original Stasis Orb, which looked more like an object, doodad or stationary structure, but is far from perfect. The front looks good, but the back makes it looks like someone tried to splice the DNA of a trilobite and scorpion. Then there's its attack, which is just plain wrong. Firstly, it should not be a continuous beam, and secondly, it should definitely not be the Colossus' original continuous beam. I was thinking more along the lines of an orb of disruption, kinda like a distorted wave similar to that of the Siege Tank's attack in Siege Mode only travelling if you know what I mean, or just no projectile at all, like the Marine. Its abilities could easily go either way. Null Void is great, but I don't agree with it revealing Burrowed units, as that has nothing to do with power or energy. Anti-Gravity looks great. It could definitely be a lot of fun, my only concern being how certain buildings, like the Supply Depot, Extractors, etc, and all Zerg buildings, will be lifted. Force Field looks interesting, but I'm not completely comfortable with it. Placement could be troublesome and costly, depending on how it's done. Overall, great concept, only a couple of minor problems, visually, and I'm uncertain about Force Field.

Colossus: Great in every regard, except it needs a better attack animation. Overall, if you exclude its current attack animation, it's perfect.

Phase Prism: Great model, great unit, great function, especially when combined with Warp In. This unit's just so versatile. Re-powering otherwise useless buildings and defences, allowing units to basically be produced on the other side of the map, able to set up ambushes, etc, as well as act as a regular transport, and it can't even attack. Overall, it's just great.

Observer: Nothing's changed, though I love its new stationary animation. Overall, seeing as nothing better can be done with it, it's definitely remained at its full potential.

Phoenix: Extremely stylish model, though its attack animation has an odd trajectory. Love the ability, and I love that it's not dependant on Energy. Overall, great.

Warp Ray: Fantastic unit and a fantastic concept, my only trouble being its colour scheme. The last I saw it appeared to be a cross between the High and Dark colour scheme, so as long as that can be resolved, keeping in mind I have absolutely no preference for High or Dark, it'll be great, provided that its quotes are changed accordingly. Overall, fantastic.

Carrier: Had to check that its Escort ability had been removed, which I was glad to see it had. Personally, I though it just didn't seem 'Protoss' at all. I'm not too much of a fan of the Interceptors being produced automatically. I reckon instead you should just be able to build them for a group while they're selected until all their queues are full. I also wouldn't mind if these were made to be more powerful, but more expensive. Overall, pretty perfect. Nothing much's been changed.

Mothership: The Mothership seems to have become the Protoss' 'Thor problem'. It hasn't really got a defined role now. It's too slow and its abilities are too un-influential. Planet Cracker and Vortex were perfect and embodied what the Mothership truly was. Now it's just a fat, slow Arbiter, fortunately without the Cloaking Field. For abilities, it should definitely have, or have an equivalent of, Planet Cracker, Vortex and Time Bomb, and maybe Recall, or possibly Cloaking Field. Overall, a bit iffy.

Pretty much all their buildings remain the same, although I'd much rather have their Phase Cannon's ability remain with them rather than be kept with the Zerg's Crawlers.

Overall, overall, anywhere between three and five stars. As a whole they're going great, but there are just a few issues holding them back. Issues that shouldn't really exist in the first place.

 

I don't suppose anyone has any last minute thoughts?

 

4/5. I'm a bit skeptical if whether or not they messed up the carrier, and I don't like the new colossus attack.

 

How would they have messed up the Carrier? It functions in the same way as the old one at the moment, doesn't it?

 

The new Carrier seems much weaker than the old one. (And the Battlecruiser seems much stronger. Unlike the Carrier, the Battlecruiser has undergone significant non-numerical changes.)

 

That's just all about stats and balancing, and not that they've messed up the Carrier as a unit.

If it's weaker, then it'll cost less and you'll be able to get more, so it's not as though you'd still be paying the same full price for a much weaker Carrier.

 

Right I declare all comments beyond this point to be off the record.

If you have the urge to post anything else let it be known it will not be recorded

 

lol, wow i was just looking at this thread wondering when you were going to end it or make the finale review, and i concer with what you said in the infestation one that you should get all the finale review together. i think it would make it easier on some people.

 

Once I do the writeup on this I think I might publish all of them.

You can see a couple in articles already. (I think)

 

there was only one Omnidiscussion results in all of the articles and it was the Protoss Shield one.

 

Theres also the mobility one

 

ah, you are right, i dont know how i missed it, i know you have somewhere up to about 5-7 of these Omnidiscussion tho, and only two of them are articles.

 

Heres the writeup. I will post it as an article later after I have a banner for it
===
When asked their opinion of the Protoss race as a whole in Starcraft 2, the majority of members of Starcraft2Forum.Org gave a rating of four stars out of a maximum of five stating that they were mostly satisfied with the race. As no ratings of one or two stars were given out it can be reasonably assumed that there isn't any major dissatisfaction with the Protoss at this point.

The majority of people who have commented feel that the race if fairly complete and fleshed out as it should be having had the most work done, and everyone seems to be behind the new Warp In mechanic to the point that in a few posts there has been some talk of using warp in on other things, mainly probes. Overall satisfaction with the Protoss ground forces is very high. Only one unit, the Colossus, has been stated to be a problem unit multiple times. Most of the complaints have revolved around the feeling that the attack is still too powerful against large units and ineffective at taking on swarms of small units and it has been suggested that the base damage be lowered but balanced out by an increase in the bonus against light units. In addition it was suggested that the beam(s) the Colossus emits be given a decent sized splash radius; it was cited that what made the Reaver powerful against mobs was the fact that the large splash radius allow it to take on groups but it wasn't too powerful because, despite the high alpha that allows it to take out group of light units in a single strike, the firing rate is low enough that the damage per second against larger units and buildings was comparable to other units built for attacking those units to a point where other units with faster firing rates were preferable in most cases. The only other complaint that has been made is merely cosmetic, Some members do not like the models of the Dark Templar or Stalker.

While most members were satisfied with the Protoss ground units, members were largely unhappy with the Protoss air force, While most of the dissatisfaction centered on the Carrier an Mothership, only the Warp Ray was untouched by complaints or suggestions. it has been stated several times that the Carrier seems weak and even confirmed by our members who attended the event in Paris that the Carrier is no longer as viable as it once was, and members would like to see the Carrier improved so players an actually rely on it. Some suggestions have been to improve the damage done by the Interceptors or perhaps increase the health of the Carrier itself; another suggestion has been to adjust the cost so the lesser power can be balanced through larger numbers, however that final suggestion might not be in fitting with the small numbers of powerful units doctrine. The other major problem unit was the Mothership. Most members dislike the slow speed of the Mothership and believe that, in itself, makes the unit unusable in most situations. it has also been commented that the current skill set makes the Mothership little more than a over-glorified Arbiter and yet less useful at the same time, so some members have requested the old Planet Cracker an Black Hole abilities back, though the Black Hole would still need some tweaks to keep it from being too powerful. Beyond those two units there were some complaints about the Phoenix with people commenting that they think the Phoenix should be able to hit air and ground and that it might need a bit of a speed increase if it is to fill the role of an aerial fighter
===
/discuss

 

Good report BirdofPrey. I agree on basically everything that you have stated.

One thing to note for your report is the Phoenix.

Back in BlizzCon 2007, Phoenix had an aerial as well as a ground attack. They also moved a lot faster. People were claiming they were heavily imbalanced because they could basically mass Phoenix and win the game. They are perfect at raiding enemy worker lines as they can fly in, shoot up workers, and fly out. (At that time, 4 shot from a Phoenix could kill a Probe).

I think it is why Blizzard changed the Phoenix a little to balance the game.

 

That sounds to me alot like a muta raid though with a Protoss unit I ca see how that would be a bit much.

The peoblem was handled in SC1 by having different ata and atg attacks on the scout and wraith so they could try somthing like that. As it stands toss don't really have a good atg platform. The warp ray is a siege unit and limited in effectiveness against many small units and the carrier an MS are late game units so there is a hole that needs to be filled weather the Phoenix is tweaked again or they introduce another air unit.

 

I find it surprising that complaints about the Stalker were common enough to get a special mention in the report. And I definitely agree that the Mothership is a big issue. Not so much the Carrier, but definitely the Mothership.

 

I am revising this topic to make it into a article.
As such this topic is reopened for another week for new comments

 

article???