Phoenix: Ground attack?

EXACTLY, kuvasz. Racial asymmetry = GOOD!

 

Uhhh, ninerman, i dont think thats wat kuvasz wat saying.... but then again, im confused myself

 

Both the terrans (banshees) and zerg (mutalisks) have good AtG raiding. I don't think the issue is trying to set up protoss racial equivalencies, rather that they should also have more than one way of raiding workers.

Stalkers don't do high damage. They're mobile, but they're not particularly good at killing workers. Even mutalisks, which do low damage, have some kind of splash.

 

As I've said before, and kuvasz said more recently, the Colossus acts as a great pseudo-Air raider. It's an extremely powerful unit, with upgradeable siege range, too, and, especially against Zerg or Protoss, they can kill a devastating number of units in a single sweep. Basically, it's a unique racial equivalency, a racial equivalency without having a racial equivalency.

As for Stalkers, that's the Protoss' Ground raider. They may not do amazing damage, but in very small groups they're still able to one-shot workers. Just as you can't raid as Zerg with a couple of Mutalisks, you can't expect to raid your opponent's economy with a couple of Stalkers. It does take some investing in first. However for a unit that doesn't take as much of an investment, Protoss, as I've said, has the Colossus. On top of that, they have Carriers, which also have siege range, and can both transport and Warp In units.

With all that in mind, I can hardly see how you can say that Protoss have been short changed in the raiding department.

On top of that, before you were complaining that, against Protoss, you only really need to defend against Air targets. How is giving Phoenixes an Air-to-Ground attack going to help that exactly?

 

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ir wont, but after the air threat is handled (with phoenixes in this situation), then u may use phoenixes for AtG (pobably mainly suport but much wanted support xd), if your opponent switches to Ground units.

Wat about on maps such as island maps, or BGH, where the enemy base is surrounded by water/space so that the colossus cannot sneak into the base from behind or the sides? DUN DUN DUN
I should have read this thread sooner >.>

transport yes, but so can other races. oooo i just got a great idea on for nuking. drop a tank + cloaked ghost, and nuke the eco 0.0 maps like bgh/fastest maps would be so decimated
and all the while the enemy would be like O CRAP WHERE THE HELL IS THAT GHOST?!

anyways, carriers,yes, but according to Joneagle, they arent really "massable" now (he said if u had more than 2 or 3, ur already dead 0.0)
maybe mothership? mej the planet cracker ability woullda been so kewl
warping in......maybe with nubs it would work, build a pylon, a cuople of cannons, get warp gates quickly...meh

but still.... an all-around air fighter is such a nice concept, like how the stalker is an all-round ground fighter

CMON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

of course, wat i really do hate is anti-gravity....it just..... doesnt FEEL right
IMO, i think it would be cooler on the viod ray, seeing how its good verses "big" units that may change the battle, like uoltras, thors, etc.
so taking one or two of those "big" units outta battle with an ability like antigravity...it seems RIGHT

IMO, OVERLOAD back on the phoenix xd, and some sort of weakish ground attack

meh still only my opinion, doesnt matter.

 

Carrier is too expensive, Mothership isn't practical, and the Warp Ray(I think that was what it's called) is useless against small units. Make the Phoenix have ground attack, no matter how weak it is, and more people will opt for mass phoenixes instead of the usual Collosus.

 

The carrier is stronger now its just not massable, the Mother ship just needs some tweeking to get it right, thats the whole point to the void ray if it wasent it would be overpowered, the pheniox does not need a ground attack its fine the way it is and no one wants any massed units for sc2.

 

I was thinking mass phoenix to quick attack the miners from air, since the protoss current do not have that ability, since all the other air units are so slow. I don't really understand why you would say no to masses units though.
Besides, terran have banshees while zerg have mutalisks, so protoss kinda lacks some quick air to ground if you ask me.

 

Mutas.
Mutas.
Mutas.

They might be even stronger than ever due to the nerf of psi storm, and no more AtA AoE units (valk, sair, devo sux -.-). This makes them so much more massable (until ur enemy gets a thor, archon, or infestor + muta combo or so )

so yea..... mutas

and how is it so unmassable anyways? if u defend well for enough time with enough eco, then u should be able to mass some carriers. even then, the carrier is more fragile, and its supposed to be a freakin capital ship. so wat it has 12 range. the interceptors are slower, worse vs armor. (see this other thread by me on carriers). the carrier isnt really FAST either, so it might just be too vulnerable in raids. lets say ur raiding this base. this guy has vikings. changes them to AtA mode, focus fire, ur carriers r dead.

the mothership needs some tweaking to get it right? well then, blizzard has certainly made the wrong tweaks >.>

i agree on the void ray and i still want to give it bonus verses massive

and maybe the phoenix is fine. too bad

as cabbate said, terrans and zerg already have their own air-raid tactics. In sc2, at least u could try to mass scouts and wipe the floor of any and all capital ships that ur opponent would use and also take out the enemy's eco. get 6 or so scouts = 1 hit kill drone/probes
in sc1, i liked using wraith harass wen i played terran, muta harass as zerg. but i never actually went scouts, thats just a huge waste of money >.> unless ur inccredibly good with micro andd then the much higher survivability of the scouts would pay off

so in sc2, if the phoenix had a weakish ground attack, it would be the perfect replacement for the scout. or just ive it overload that can hit ground units (FTWWWWWW) and go

 

Arggh insanity, how dare you spell my name wrong even though it contains nutritious values and fruitful dietary fibre.

Yeah and thanks for quoting me. Anyways...

Since the phoenix has a cost of 125-75, they are relatively cheaper than most other air units, making the protoss gain an eco advantage while making it a good option for quick massed raids against enemy workers. Therefor, I think phoenix should have a ground attack, even if it requires energy, or needs to be research. I think the overload ability would be fine, causing ground damage while also giving time workers to escape while it charges.

 

The Phoenix has an indirect ground attack in the form of anti-gravity. A single phoenix can immobilise a ground unit, two can attack it, and a group can wreck havoc on armies/bases.

This is the best thing that can be done in regards to the Phoenix imo, it's interesting dynamic and gives it anti-ground capabilities without just slapping on an ground attack.

 

Well i dont really care because the phoenix is not a powerful air unit for me.

 

Maybe an ability to shoot ground while consuming mana would be good. In this case, the AtG should not be too weak either, because it would be an ability.

 

That's exactly what anti-gravity is. It lifts a ground unit into the air, so it can be shot at by other phoenixes.

 

yeah but then, I don't like the idea of getting paralized and making the lifted unit only attackable by your other units. It should be able to lift and attack a unit by itself.

 

hmmm well wat if its sumthing massive? or a building? u cant effectively harass workers picking them up one at a time.

 

LOL well using your metaphor, you can pick up women without getting paralyzed. Same goes with phoenixes

 

Son of a bitch jon!!!!!!!!!!!
The censor thingy must be removed now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!