Phase Cannon No Longer Phasable

ic, Maybe we could add a mix of what i said before with ur idea and sumbit it to blizzard and see what we get back cause moving around building or atleast the cannon would still fit the phase cannon in someway.

 

The catch is other races already have those abilities. The Terrans can pretty much reporition their buildings at will and the Zerg have the moving defensive structures. And that is why unless there was some major changes I doubt this idea would be implemented.

 

well there different in there own ways. I mean terrans get there money back(100% of there money) and yes zerg get to move around now but why should 1 race be left behind while the others are free? If the phase cannon is not going to do anything atleast change the name back ya know

 

For all these cannon re-warping type of ideas, why would a Protoss player just warp-in new cannons where it is needed? For balance reasons, for any type of re-warping to work, the warp-in time would need to be long(if not just as long as initial warp-in) to prevent cheese. Even for the long range blinking, the cooldown time for you to re-blink would need to be long as hell. In either case, doing so leaves your base open with cannons sent else where. With Zerg it is so easy to go back and forth all over the place a feign attacks or just take 1 or 2 probes out at a time and switch targets.

That line of abilities do not seem very useful to me. They seem to want to only maximize on the coolness factor and give little consideration for practicality and balance. If one was to argue that warp-in time wouldn't need to be that long, then it is way more OP in offensive application than Shield Channeling is, same thing with blinking cannons.

Shield Channeling would NOT be OP(responding to the choke scenario argument) because all it does is buy you time in the first half of your cannon's "death time." All you are doing is just managing and redistributing the same amount of shield points on hand. If you have 12 canons at a choke, let's say without Shield Channeling they all go down in 2 minutes. With Shield Channeling, those 12 cannons would still all go down in 2 minutes. The only difference is, the time for your first 5 or so cannons go down come a lot later than without Shield Channeling, the end result is the same if they all get destroyed. Where as non-Shield Channeling cannons go down 1 every 10 seconds(2minute/12 or 1/6 of a minute), it would take about 65 seconds to take down the first cannon, and the rest would fall very quickly, quicker than non-Shield Channeling cannons. The remaining 11 cannonss would take approximately 5 seconds each to fall. All 12 cannons go down at the 2 minute mark either way. I hardly think that's too much at the cost of micro on the part of the player.

The more I look at the Shield Channeling idea, the more I like it. It's not too much and not too little. No idea is a good one when cool factor rules over balance or practical applicability. I think Shield Channeling is good in that sense.

Oh, and just in case someone wanted to bring up how it's still OP in offensive towering(aka cannon rushing) scenarios, please first explain how Terran with infinite repairing capabilities on the bunkers and then be able to get the full 100% cost back on the bunkers after they level your base is not OP instead.

 

Your making an assumption Remy and interestingly enough its an assumption that makes shield channeling completely irrelevant. That assumption is that the attacking force is constant throughout that 2 minutes, which can't be true if this ability is to be effective at all. Because what is the advantage of this ability? Its that since an oponent has to effectively drain all of your cannons shields before your cannons start dieing they are at full firepower for a longer period of time meaning your oponent is losing more men at a faster rate meaning the cannons aren't taking as much damage as they normally would as the battle progresses meaning the cannons wouldn't be under assualt from a constant attack force meaning they would probably live for longer than those 2 minutes or avoid death entirely.

Again I'm still against this ability because it is either going to be useless because it doesn't give you much reward for your actions or it could potentially be to powerful depending on the stats of the Phase cannon. This seems like something you would have to balance on the edge of a knife for a very small reward in terms of strategic options or time (in terms of in game actions).

I really just hate the idea of having to micromanage my Phase Cannons so they can be at the top of there game I would rather micromange my units in tandem with the cannons or use cannons as simple build and forget defenses at an expo instead of playing these little games as far shields are concerned.

 

You act like micro is some serious 450 APM stuff. Micro manage by effectivly channeling to the correct cannons in the thick of it. Simple. Or would you rather your cannons be powerless during a tank drop, yet Terran and Zerg can do something about it.

 

No I am acting like I only have 50 APM which is probably close to the truth. I like Photon Cannons because they are cheap for what they do and once you build them you don't have to directly dela with them again. What your proposing would require some sort of balanc eon top of the weakened cannons behind the front lines and the clanace would probably come from a minro reduction in the Phase Cannons stats and thats what I don't want to see happen atleast not for this.

 

So were the zerg defensive colonies, before they got the uproot thing.

To be honest, I don't like the shield channeling idea because then the question arises: what's stopping it from giving it to other buildings/units? Nothing. And that's where shield batteries come in...

 

Thats kinda OP imo. Transfering shield to all buildings.
Thats pretty much a Terran trait, being able to repair almost anything with a Medic and SCV.

 

There is still a difference

Terran can repair 100% of damage. prootss even with this mechanic would only be able to fix the shields any damage taken to HP is permanent.

 

Zerg can be restored to 100% health and so can Terran. The Protoss racial identity shouldn't be the fact that they have no idea how to help their injured people

I would've put this in [ot] but it looks ugly.

 

come to think of it after ur done at an Expansion base why should u have cannons sit there when theres no need to be there anymore. I'd much rather move be able to move the cannons else where then have them sit there useless and ignored

Or heres a better use for the cannosn, lets say u have cannons set up at a choke hold spot and the enemy is oviously going to over throw the spot. run the men out and since the Wark out part is instant have the cannons leave that spot last so u dont completely lose everything.

And heres another good scenario, lets say u have 3 bases and one of the bases looks completely out numbered. warp your cannons out to the next base so it has a better chance then the last. or warp cannons that arnt doing anything to that base thats about to come under serious fire. i think having cannons do this might give you some Power for a while... It would atleast keep the enemy on his toes and looking.

 

along with my idea of storing your cannons inside your nexus it would be a great thing to have them so you can replace destroyed ones much faster.. so you can basically have some stored just incase between attacks you need replacements.

 

What so that just instantly materialize when you need to use them?

 

I never said I liked that fact.

I think they should get a way to fix damage to HP
Nevertheless shield transfer would not be that way

 

So how?

Also I can see the topic sliding away from cannon ideas.

 

now that i look at it my idea isnt much different from just building them but it does let you, reset them.

 

have it take half the time of a normal build or cannons to come up when the nexus stores some and a probe still has to place them. Then there is stil the risk of losing thm. Also since you prebuilt the you have money sitiing unused

 

@ LK, My example was just to show how Shield Channeling would work out in a game situation by using theoretical numbers. It was in response to the choke scenario argument brought up by someone. It was by no means meant to be a be-all-end-all and cover-all example.

However, hehe, I must point out something for you as well. By saying what you said, you've made your own assumptions. You assumed the opposite(the scenario I presented) could not be true, and that Remy never thought that other scenarios were possible. If you say my scenario can not be, then you assume that attacks on Protoss Cannons will always be from units in range of Cannon fire and that the enemy will always lose units. I can give you 3 quick examples where that would not be the case, and where it would satisfy the conditions to my scenario given. 1)Guardians, 2)Hydras under Dark Swarm, and 3)user micro(Stalkers FF and blinking away for example).

My example is made to be over-simple for easy understanding. Making the Cannon count 12, and the time 2 minutes, are for the same reason. What you pointed out is actually the only merit to the Shield Channeling mechanic, to have more surviving Cannons remaining as long as you make it back to defend around the first half of your Cannons' "death time." It is the exact reason and same benefit in people cycling out damaged units under focus fire. Other than that, there is no benefit in Shield Channeling. Hence, my argument against its OP-ness.

12 Cannons at a single location is a LOT in real games. However, I'm sure everyone's had a good amount of their own share of experience against noobs who w-h-o-r-e Cannons in SC1. The annoyance factor is there, will still be there this time, but nothing is different. Against Cannon spammers, Shield Channeling doesn't change anything from how it was in SC1. You eventually bring out your own answer to taking down mass Cannons, to wipe them out completely. Whether it be siege units, Dark Swarm, or whatever else. When it's about wiping out all of the Cannons around, it will still be the same deal.

Shield Channeling doesn't change the big picture in any way IMO, and it keeps the Cannons "static." All it does is just provide some flexibility in close encounters and buy you some time when people are trying to rob your blind while you're away from home.

 

SO u wanna add an ability that will in the end make do difference? if thats the case your just ganna add dead weight to the game that no one will bother to use after a few times when they relize its not worth the extra clicks? Even if this ability was added to The Phase cannon it would need some type of tweaking to make it worth keeping. Last thing we need is to add a ability or unit that will force the rest of the race to kind of bend around it like the freaking reaper, I think the medic got removed for a while because of that unit and i dont wanna see the same thing happen to the protoss.