Petition: Bring back the Predator!

nah i dont think it has something to do with the weapon. i mean come on terran needs a LASERED weapon ATA fighter, its basic for a sci fi space fighter. if they get rockets instead then that would suck IMO, terran vs toss should not be like the independence day movie (jet planes vs alien fighter ships). wraith use lasers..

its not bcoz of the weapons obviously, i thinkg blizzard is trying to differentiate the races more by not giving all races an ata fighter... which doesn't make sense at all.

anyway im betting the predator will be back for sure or something similar.

 

Yeah it will be back but in an expansion,i guess

 

zeratul11 im talking about the abbility, where it shoot bullets down with its lasers, but how can it shoot lasers down with lasers?

 

StarCraft2 is not a basic science fiction game. The fact that lasers are a stereotypical weapon for human Air-to-Air fighters in other science fiction games/movies/books/etc, makes me not want them even more. If people want to play a stereotypical science fiction game, they shouldn't be playing StarCraft. StarCraft2 is supposed to be a ground-breaking game, buit how can it be if they keep on sticking to the usual?

I don't get how you can say that Terran versus Protoss shouldn't be like Independence Day, but you say it should be like all the other science fiction games/movies out there. It's a bit hypocritical.
Also, Battlecruisers still use lasers, so it's not like they've been totally removed from the Terran.

It'd be surprised if that was their reasoning. That'd be like not giving Zerg and Ground-to-Ground units, because the all the other teams already have them. I doubt Blizzard would be that foolish, and if they were, they would have compensated for the Terran's lack of Air-to-Air by giving them more Ground-to-Air, which they haven't. Not to mention that removing Terran Air-to-Air units would make units like the Phoenix and Corruptor less useful.

 

Well Zerg have the all round air fighter; Mutalisk.

Protoss have the exclusive AtA unit which dominates the skies.

Terran have the 2 mode unit being the Viking. Which owns large slow firing targets.

I look at it like this now, Zerg will dominate the skies until Protoss gets enough Phoenix and Terran get Thors. During that time Vikings will be doing tactical strikes and stuff while Zerg flyers lurk on the outskirts of battle since Thors rip them apart.
Phoenix will be in and out later game.

It seems like Zerg have the best air IMO.

Mutalisks = effective against most things. But lack of micro will make them less useful than sc1
Corruptors will get owned when Phoenix are around meaning they won't be much use. But if Corruptors come early, the Colossi will suffer greatly.
Swarm guardian will break heavy defense and beat Colossus.

 

The Predator definitely needs to come back. I'm sure Blizzard cut it just because they thought they had the AA-Thor. But, I believe its the missing Terran link and perhaps also the solution to the Thor question-

Version 1)

Cut the Thor. Yes, it pains me, but It has to go. Bring back the Predator, complete with its laser missile killing ability. It doesn't have to work on all missiles- maybe just 50% of what is thrown at it. Or, a certain amout of missiles per time. That means if you got a group Predators, they wouldnt just kill off all of the missiles- just half of them, while 1 Predator would kill only a couple. This could also be made relative to the amount of missiles fired.
Give the viking a much stronger ground attack- make it be actually useful on ground. Its AA could be nerfed a bit- the predator is now the air superiority fighter now. Imagine how good could the missile killing ability be on the corrupter- finally a solution to the powerful ability of it.

Version 2)

Same as above- but possibly make the Thor the same as the queen and mothership are now. That means 1 per player. Make it the same as it was the first time we saw it. Maybe get back the ability to be dismobilized. Make it have some AA- not so strong though. Or just make it have no AA at all.

For me, this would be the dream solution. The Thor would regain its respectful place in the Terran army, and the predator's handy ability will come to good use.

 

I would prefer version 2. Really, Terran arent about super-units...
I dont think you will need to change anything at the VIking, perhaps only this:
normal attack: armored bonus
So that it will be even weaker against mutalisks, but strong against corupters etc. Then give the Predator a splash and it seems pretty nice

 

The Viking's normal attack has a Light bonus. It's designed to be effective at taking out Light units, so what's with wanting to completely change it's purpose from Anti-Light to Anti-Armoured? Just let the unannounced unit be effective Anti-Air, Anti-Armoured attackers instead of changing the Viking. It seems that all the Terran units were extremely effective until Blizzard started either messing around with them or adding other units that stole their role and, as a result, had to mess around with them. The Viking is perfect, so leave it be. Don't start messing around with it, because if they do, then even more Terran units will be messed up.

 

Oh. If it could take out light units whats the point of having a Marauder since we have Tanks to kill armored units and the slowing down ability seems kinda worthless except early game vs Zealots when M&M could of been just as useful but the M&M would be useful thru out the game...

I say cut the Marauder if Terran need space for an AtA unit.

And I agree with Terran getting messed up.

 

The Marauder is design to support Marines by helping to kite the enemy and it has a slight bonus to Armoured units to make up for the fact that it doesn't slow them down. The Siege Tanks is designed for siege, so it has a huge bonus to Armoured units.
You're right that Terran needs room for Anti-Air units, but the Marauder isn't the unit that should be cut. It's the Jackal that should be cut because the Banshee was perfectly capable at taking out swarmed units, but by adding the Jackal as a Anti-Swarm unit they had to remove the Banshee's area of effect making it much less effective against swarmed units. If the Jackal can be cut, then the Banshee can have its original attack restored and then there will be room in the Factory for a dedicated Ground-to-Air unit, not to mention that there's still a vacant position in the StarPort for a dedicated Air-to-Air units. If these changed are made then there will be much less overlap with unit's roles and the Terran's Anti-Air front will be restored.

 

The Banshee has cloak so it can initiate tactical strikes. You can't make tactical strieks with a volly of missles which miss. Having a duel rocket launcher makes it that more precise when eliminating targets.
If you want to take out clusters use Siege Tanks and Jackal.

All that needs to happen with Terran is:
Viking goes back to Factory, leaving us with Viking, Jackal, Crucio in the Factory.
Thor gets big and strong again minus the bombardment cannons and is built directly from an SCV.
Starport gets an AtA unit which allows the Vikings air attack to get only slightly weakend to allow it's ground attack to be slightly more useful, giving more way for the AtA unit.
Cut the Marauder and give the Reapers some kind of electric attack which slows down units, this would bring about their usefulness again.
Medics return to the barracks and Dropship returns to it's original state.

 

A tactical strike doesn't have to be precise. Strafing runs are tactical and the majority of the ammunition misses. Air strikes are tactical and the majority of the missiles won't get any direct hits either. The Germans used V-2 Rockets to bomb England in World War 2, they were extraordinarily inaccurate and weren't even attempted to be used for precision, but they were still tactical. In StarCraft2, the Ghost can Cloak and can also launch Nukes, which were never meant for precision, so saying that the area of effect attack of the Banshee should be removed because it wasn't precise and they needed to be tactical is a load of rubbish. It hardly even matters whether the missiles missed a specific target anyway because their blast radius would still injure it.
As for what I feel needs to happen to the Terran:
The Jackal should be cut, the Viking should be moved back to the Factory (I wasn't aware it had been moved again), a new unit should be added to the Factory, designed purely for Ground-to-Air and the Thor should be built directly by the SCV's. That way the three Factory units are the Viking, Siege Tank, and a new Ground-to-Air unit. A new unit Air-to-Air should be added to the StarPort, and the Dropship and Medic should be split.

 

Marauder should definitely stay, what the hell Zergalicious. The model is awesome, the attack is useful, a great companion to siege tanks and marines. Arent you a Protoss player?

I totally agree with Itza. The Jackal isn't good at all, cut it, bring back banshee AoE. Isn't it possible that a predator can be the AtA and the viking could be counted as GtA?

 

Hm........i thought Banshee still has an AoE attack?They just change the way BS attack,a single missile cause AoE damage,I guess

 

First off, it's not Zergalicious, GM_k, it's someone who's stolen his skin. But seriously, it's Psionicz, not Zergalicious.
It's possible that Vikings could be regarded as the Terran's Ground-to-Air unit. Their Ground-to-Air attack gets a bonus against Light units, and their Air-to-Air attack is effective against Armoured units, so overall, it'd be great at combating almost any Air target. If the Predator was still in the game then it would definitely be the Terran's Air-to-Air fighter, but it could just as easily be replaced with a new unit.
If these changes were to be made, they'd still need another Ground-to-Air attacker though, so the last Factory spot should still go to a new Ground-to-Air unit. That way the Barracks would have mainly Anti-Ground units, the Factory would have mainly Ground-to-Air units and the StarPort would have all the Air units.

 

What does being a Protoss player have anything to do with this thread lol

The Banshee is limited to only killing units. If they have a sensor tower and some AA Turrets the banshee becomes ineffective at base raided. its only use will be keep enemies at bay who don't have detection.
I would rather the Banshee have the stronger attack which doesn't spread cuz they are cheap anyway, so if you can pretty much mass them thats the point of having a spread if they operate in numbers?
5 spread fire or 5 focused fire. The 5 focused fire will do a much better job since they can eliminate the high priority targets faster before they can retreat to detect or Turrets.
Just give the attack a slight splash damage to units close to the target. I think that will solve the Banshee problem.

Ah and what you said with the nuke simply says we don't need to waste time using spread fire Banshees if we have nukes. Terran also have Siege mode, Battlecruiser plasma array.
Wouldn't you rather take out key targets which the Ghost can't reach AND still retain the ability to own large units?

Its just my preference but I would rather have Reapers with a new attack than Marauders. Marauder are available early game right and they do the same damage as Marines unelss it is an armored target. What armored targets will you encounter in the early game phase?
The slowing down ability is overated IMO, all its gonna slow down is Zealots and maybe a few Zerglings. But that can be countered by attacking from all directions.
And by the time Zerg have Roaches you will have Crucios.
Plus, when Protoss goes Colossus you won't want to use Marauder, you will use Crucio and Viking to destroy them.
I just think the Marauder is only useful for a smart part of the game vs Protoss mainly.

Wouldn't you prefer the Medic to return and have some kinda new attack for the Reaper, cuz I think its better when players have the option of going mech or staying with infantry.

 

Psionicz they will not be an as good base-raider, because AoE damage is good against drones, and that should be their target!?
My solution for this very huge problem is perhaps not the best (or perhaps totally sucky), but Ill try:
Predator back, with its abbility + splash damage

Viking lower normal damage in air mode, but higher + against armored

Thor, Should be a big giant again

Medic and Dropship back, made reapers even more useless, and was a bit against the lore. I think it was done because of "too many barrack units".

Banshee: AoE again, that was totally the right choice from Blizzards site!

The jackal and the Reaper: These two seems to overlap in some way. They are both good for harassment (fast), and the jackal is good against marines etc, like the banshee if it has AoE, and the Reaper is useless even without the Medivac Dropship, as I stated in many other threads.
So remove the Reaper and the Jackal, and give us the Vulture back... Give it spider mines and fast speed, and we have a good ground harasser that is USEFULL. Terran still have a "cliff-walker/transformer)" the Viking. There will only be 4 barrack-units too!
This is my best solution, but I dont really know, because its a REALLY HARD PROBLEM!

 

The Banshee might not be as effective against buildings, but that doesn't mean it's a useless base raider. Missile Turrets no longer have Detection, so all the Banshees would need to do is take out the Sensor Tower. Seeing as most players probably won't build tonnes of Sensor Towers as to overlap all detection radii around their base, they would only need to destroy about one, two tops. Banshees deal five lots of six attack every attack, and the Sensor Tower has 200 health and one Armour. This would mean that, assuming that you're going around with three to five Banshees and factoring in Splash Damage, it should only take about five or so volleys to take out a Tower, assuming you're got no other backup. In my opinion it would be better to assist these with Reapers so that you're able to quickly take out the Sensor Tower with the Reaper's D8 Charges.

The Banshee doesn't have a stronger attack, it deals the same damage as it did before, but at one specific unit. This means that instead of a few Banshees being able to take out a cluster of Marines in a couple of volleys, they've now got to focus on each one individually and take two full volleys before being able to move onto the next Marine.

You're right in saying that they're able to take out high priority targets more effectively now, but that's not supposed to be their role. Terran already have the Siege Tank and Thor for that. The Banshee was an area of effect attacker designed at taking out massed units, not priority targets. Also, you're giving mixed messages here. You're saying that it's better without an area of effect attack, but then you're saying that giving it splash damage will solve the problem.

I hope you're joking here. Are you trying to say that any situation where you'd need the old Banshee you could just replace it with a Nuke? Nukes are expensive, risky and require a lot of setting up which is very different to raiding with some Cloaked Air units, not to mention if you want to use them in a full scale battle.
As I said before, Siege Tanks are already designed for taking out key targets, Banshees are meant for swarms. The Plasma Torpedoes does overlap with the Banshee, but it's a spell, not a constant attack. That's like saying that the Archon should be removed or changed because the Protoss already have Psionic Storm for their area of effect attack.

The Marauders aren't supposed to be used for their damage. They do deal the same amount as Marines, but have a much slower attack speed. They're supposed to be used for their slowing ability instead. I don't see how you can think it's overrated because this is pretty much Terran's only way of dealing with melee attackers. The Terran have no melee units so none of their units are designed to soak up damage. The way to do this is to keep the melee units out of combat, which is why they need the Marauder's slowing ability. It has an incredibly small damage bonus against Armoured units, so it's probably just to make up for the fact that it won't be able to slow most of them. Your opponent won't always be in a situation to attack you from all sides, so that isn't really a counter to Marauders.

As I said before, the Marauders only get an incredibly small damage bonus against Armoured units, so it's probably just compensating for the fact that they won't be able to slow most of them. They're meant to be used for their slowing effect, not for their damage bonus to Armoured units.

The Reaper is awesome, I don't get why you want it changed. I also don't get what you mean by having the option to go mech or stay with infantry. Terran players won't be able to survive just on mechs or just on infantry. Whether you like either of them or not, you're sill going to have to use both.

 

Perhaps moving the Viking to Starport would be the solution, as Reapers would become more useful in early game for harassment and counter, and by the time you get Vikings you can choose to get Banshees. This way the mobility will be left on the hands of the Reaper, then in the Medivac Dropship (which would have to be moved to the Factory to work) and finally you get aircrafts with the final form of mobility, which together with the fully-mobile new terran base will be incredibly powerful.

Plus, I don't think intercepting missiles would ever be correctly balanced, as it is either a final skill (completely blocks certain units), or works on luck, blocking a certain percentage of damage. We already have defensive Matrix, and therefore, bringing back the Predator would result in axing the Nomad as well. I vote for keeping the Predator gone.

@ furrer: Terran early game has so many possibilities that I think they're going to fix ZvP first, and then, based on both Zergs and Protoss, define which Terran units should they have or not.

 

You need to source that staement before I can discuss it.
But we have Jackals, Vikings and Tanks to kill Marines.

Builds From: Starport
Armament: Backlash Cluster Rockets
Role: Tactical Strike Aircraft
Also Tank and Thor are pretty much limited to where they can go. Thats why the Banshee has cloak so it can get within range where the Tank can't reach.
Tank is an assult unit btw.
And Thor was a defense breaker but its now GtA...

I was just giving a simple example.

All they have to worry about is Zealots, Roaches and Ultralisk. And by the time Roaches and Ultralisk come out, you'll have sieged Crucios in key area to lay waste to them.
I don't think I will be using the Marauder unless I'm in trouble early game vs Protoss.

I was talking about early game matches. Plus Reaper are likely to be cut at this point because of the Medivac which is why I say give them something to make them more useful.